LFB Pay Offer

[Harve88]

Not sure how it will go down with the union but LFB have been offered a 6% pay rise backdated to July and and a further 5% this coming July.

Will be interesting to see what happens as I know most LFB staff i have spoken to today are happy with that offer but it obviously puts the National union in a difficult position. 

[BurtMacklin]

If this goes to a ballot I know which way I’ll be voting 

[SB6089]

11% without a change in conditions, and taking into account the current stalemate with multiple unions and the government. I think there’s only one way to vote.

[OscarTango]

Who is this actually being offered by? Where exactly is the money coming from?

[Aspire]

Seems to be driven by the Mayor as a result of additional government settlement to Greater London Authority, not specifically for Fire.

[Harve88]

The offer does state if we do strike it will be withdrawn as that money will be used for resilience arrangements.

[OscarTango]

Thanks just peering at the docs doing the rounds this second on out Union groups.

Where it mentions the 2 percent skills payment for MTFA: is that something LFB ffs already get but haven't been given the trianing yet or is it being with held until that is in place? 

It was my understanding that LFB doesn't do MTFA at all yet, is that incorrect?

[Harve88]

@OscarTango We already get the payment for mtfa but I personally have had no training on it yet.

I  have seen the MTFA attribute next to some peoples names on our crewing system so assume the training is ongoing or being done at select stations currently 

[Aspire]

Training for MTA (the ‘F’ was dropped some years ago) began in April with the first stations having come on the run on 21st Dec.

Despite this, everybody received the 2% from April 1st.

[BurtMacklin]

everyone gets the MTA payment, MTA has gone live and is on the trucks in a phased way starting with the highest risk stations so central london outwards 

[CaptainFlack]

If this gets voted in then it's the end of the NJC.

[OscarTango]

Is MTA an extra days training or is it done on station on normal duty shifts? (Some claims here that the 2 percent is for an extra day or two work to do the training).

But not to derail, this is the future that the White Paper proposes, the end of the NJC and local disparities on pay rates

[Aspire]

MTA for us is a days theory at station delivered by operational officers (not Babcock) and a days practical with multi-agency partners.

[Dyson]

2 hours ago, OscarTango said:

Is MTA an extra days training or is it done on station on normal duty shifts? (Some claims here that the 2 percent is for an extra day or two work to do the training).

But not to derail, this is the future that the White Paper proposes, the end of the NJC and local disparities on pay rates

What is point you are unsuccessfully attempting to make ?

[Messyshaw]

I can see why this offer is an attractive one - although lets get real, an 11% pay rise over two years is a 5.5% annual rise - so is IMHO its still crap as its well below inflation.

Be warned, Captain Flack has said, the NJC will be severely weakened and the FBU likewise if local deals are accepted. Its bad enough that the devolved administrations such as Scotland and Wales were canvassed to do their own thing, but when/if the big firms like London, West Mids and Manchester follow suit, its gunna be really bad news for those working in the smaller county FRS.

Can you imagine those counties adjacent to large FRS? They already struggle to keep staff now, it will be a nightmare if pay and other conditions are worse across neighbouring areas.

But please do not think I am critical of any LFB staff who wants this rise. I am retired and have no mortgage so am not in a position to criticise. Indeed, my fire service pension has been performing better than FF wages which is disgraceful.

But please remember that the mortgage rate was 18% in the 1970s so we struggled then too. However we saw the value of holding on to national agreements/deals and would not sell out our brothers elsewhere in the UK to make a few extra quid. Divisive action like this will destroy what is left of national union power

[Dyson]

Firefighters in London are using food banks, they can only dream of owning a home, they are waiting for 7 or 8 years to get their young families into social housing for which they are paying 1200 quid p/m for a 3 roomed flat. 

Firefighters in London have to read and listen to cozy people out in the countryside lecture them and criticise them about topics like grenfell  and the culture review, they have to read here how they have disgusted members of this forum…..and now this. All the same anti narrative just different subject. 

What about the areas of the UK who have preferential pensions arrangements? Where the criticism? What about countryside stations doing no calls getting 20 or 30 percent more money ? Where is the criticism ? What about those brigades doing 24’s outside the grey book ? Where is the criticism? 

After many years here, I recently unsubscribed from this once wonderful cyber meeting point for like minded firefighters. I’m just bored of reading the predictable anti LFB stuff. It’s not a good look, or a positive thing for any of us to be continually be exposed to. 

I work at a fantastic, hugely diverse, absolutely inclusive and welcoming station, where I am surrounded by loving and caring people who show up every day with smiles on their faces. They show up to serve our capital city, the save lives, to help others. They do this while they negotiate a massive, complex fire ground where they service thousands of fire calls a year. They don’t deserve this continuing criticism, they deserve much better. 

London firefighters are together. 

[TandA]

Well, the offer has clearly had exactly the effect I suspect many in Govt and on the employer’s side hoped it would have and driven a massive and very public wedge between different sections of the FBU membership, holing whatever strength from a show of unity we may have had below the waterline.  I may not be LFB, I don’t do thousands of calls a year or have the most complex, risk saturated ground as a ff but I do know a bit about what struggling to preserve terms and conditions means.  My old man was on strike for over a year solid when I was growing up and had all sorts of mud slung his way by the Govt of the day and the press.  To say I am disillusioned with all the public comments being made that totally undermine our own side’s negotiating position doesn’t cover it. 

[Vema11]

@DysonI really like your enthusiasm for your own brigade you are clearly very proud. If the LFB accept that offer. That would massively affect the strike. Considering the risks and infrastructure in London. For example the underground, house of parliament and Buckingham palace the list goes on. 

You seem very annoyed about how people have talked about your brigade. I’m sure this is a very small minority. 

You’ve talked about the money extra county brigades are on and other extra people get pensions, 24 hour shifts, did you forget the London weighting which is only available to London, what about other places which have gone through the roof in terms of house prices and cost of living. 

We need to stick together as a United Kingdom if we don’t we are stuffed and the FBU will be divided which will be playing into governments hands. Think long term please before voting. 

[Noddy]

Divide and conquer before our very eyes.  

[Rich]

@Dyson the criticism of LFB you are referring to I have never heard spoken of by any FF in my own brigade. 

Its a half decent offer and I think if put out nationally would be accepted. If LFB back out the strike to accept its obviously going to be very damaging to the pay campaign for the rest of the country and create a huge divide in the FBU. 

[BurtMacklin]

thankfully the union, national and regional is a democracy so the london members will/should get to vote on whether to accept or reject the offer, then we will see what the situation is 

[Desserts]

11% over 2 years will still work out to about a 10% pay cut in real terms. This is after 12 years of real term pay cuts.  Remember London rejected the 2003 offer but was forced to take it by the rest of the country.

It's not my battle now but it's still a cop offer!

[C_Iain]

Am I not right in saying that the FBU has successfully campaigned against region/service specific pay offers in the past?

Thinking specifically about the offer made to Scottish FRS a few years ago by the Scottish parliament.

[BestJobEver]

Hope the LRX totally poo poo this offer and its all quashed.

I know where my ✅ will be, no thanks im with the rest of the country.

The union will be destroyed if this goes through. The chief knows exactly what he has done. 

Dont be selfish. Yes its a lot of £, but do the right thing. 

[Bgjm21]

Fbu screwed us over north of the border a few years ago regarding a 17% pay offer. If this is pushed through then the National fbu is done in Scotland.

Maybe rightfully so given how different the governments we deal with are..