MOD FRS Sell Off Latest

[Br9mp81]

£525 million to run the MOD F&RS for 12 years, nice tidy profit coming.

[Matt]

Wonder how long Crapita keep it out of the 12 year contract.

[Messyshaw]

I am not sure that PFI and outsourcing is necessarily a sure fire way to win profits any more.

Carillion collapsed, others are in trouble, many have had the terms of the contract altered to ensure they don't go bankrupt. 

Any dont forget AssetCo,  London's first foray into the wonderful world of privatisation. They promptly went bust early into their 20 year contract and left a bank to buy then rent fire appliances to the LFB in a contingency arrangement 

Theres only one guarantee with these contracts - the taxpayer is always the loser

[JonnyHolbs]

@Messyshaw I’m not sure how much it concerns the profits of the corporations involved. Instead, I think it has more to do with lining the pockets of the ‘high ups’ within the corporations who face little to no consequence when the corporations involved collapsed.

Yes, Carillion collapsed, but I would put my (non-existent) house on the fact that the directors at the time are still absolutely rolling in it and have faced no repercussions whatsoever.

[Br9mp81]

The only way to make profit on this is to cut the wage bill, and exploit any gaps/oversights in the contract given that its not un common for DFRMO/RAF fire crews to be asked to do things such as unwrap the ensign, chase dogs off runways, do fod plods,etc tohe scope  ,to charge extra is there the thing is most mil COs will only pay the once, and next time just ping one of the troops to do it, as it is i've heard that many of the core tasks carried out now, hydrants,alarms,fire extingusher checks were left out leaving fuming COs having to find money to cover the cost of getting someone in to do.

[Messyshaw]

Does anyone know how this Capita plan is going?

I understand the end of a transition phase is nearly here and Capita will be taking the reigns soon. Is this true as Capita's website is full of Corporate spin ( shiny new fire engines and training centre) but little other details.

I have been hearing whispers of cuts to operational stations in terms of available crews and appliances and even operational hours. Has anyone any info?

[StandPipe]

@Messyshaw

A friend of mine is an RAF firefighter so this Capita takeover effects him slightly (still employed by the RAF etc however Capita will now provide all the vehicles and equipment). He says they are throwing money into brand new trucks and equipment so the RAF are happy so far.

He did say that a lot of the old ‘DRFMO’ lads believe it’s just ‘the same clowns in different uniform’ however it was time they got a revamp. I believe Moreton is now open as an RAF base however courses are still going through Manston.

[Wallyf]

Capita fire and rescue service took over in April. They started to carry out IRMP's in September 2019 and still not complete. Only a couple have been signed off and altered staffing on certain stations by reducing numbers. 

MoD have paid for all the vehicles and these aren't owned by Capita. This is incase the capita contract fails at least the stations have appliances incase it goes back to MoD. 

They are now starting courses at Moreton with Manston set to be closed fully in the coming weeks. 

[Messyshaw]

6 hours ago, Wallyf said:

 They started to carry out IRMP's in September 2019 and still not complete. Only a couple have been signed off and altered staffing on certain stations by reducing numbers. 

Do you know if any stations have successfully fought off cuts to crew numbers or station operational hours, and if so, which stations? Thanks

[Wallyf]

I don't know of any as yet. But I know Draft IRMP's at certain stations got sent out to Head of Establishments and they have basically chucked the draft back at them to re think there decisions. 

 

[TrainHardFightEasy]

Out of interest what’s the salary for an MOD FF?

[OscarTango]

A mate if mine is at Porton Down, he said they were all getting a pay rise up to 32k. I've not seen him in person yet to get the inside goss. They're doing 24s as a covid measure tatl probably stay. The flying stations are likely to have very different area arrangements to places like Porton or Kineton however 

[Messyshaw]

10 hours ago, Wallyf said:

I don't know of any as yet. But I know Draft IRMP's at certain stations got sent out to Head of Establishments and they have basically chucked the draft back at them to re think there decisions. 

That is good news - lets hope that posture from Heads of Establishment continues. I know the Defence Fire safety Regulator are not happy bunnies!!!

I doubt whether if there is a PFI contract in the UK where the contractor tells the client how to run their business. But - unless I am mistaken - its Crapita that are undertaking the IRMPs and demanding (money saving) changes such as numbers of appliances and personnel at each base, and what hours they should operate

It like me, Messywaste PLC, getting the contract with you council to empty the bins. I am awarded the contract and then assess and announce I am only emptying black bins and not grey ones, and my guys won't be travelling 45 miles to the tip, we will dump the rubbish at the town hall car park as its easier

How the hell did this happy where the Crapita tail is wagging the Defence Fire dog????

The good news is, if HMG were risking the MOD estate in an experiment to be repeated in local authorities across the UK, I can honestly see this Crapita contract folding in a Carillion style - so it might be the end of privatisation for a few years

[Healdav]

I many ways there is nothing wrong with contracting out, but you have to be certain that what the contractors will do is what those they replace will do. For example, way back, when Aden was still, just about, British, a road was required across somewhere in the desert (no idea why). Anyway, the government decreed that this was ideal for 'efficient' private industry rather than the 'inefficient' army. The contractors were shipped out form Britain and started work. Then the bullets started flying, and the contractors walked out saying they weren't paid to be in the firing line. The inefficient army had to take over to do the job.

This resulted in a committee being appointed to look into the use of civilians in war areas under fire. They got their comeuppance when they interviewed a colleague of mine (a good bit senior to me and a lot older). They asked him what he would do if he was working on a military base (this was the RN Supply and Transport Service, by the way, a civilian organisation and always had been) and it came under fire. "It would depend whether I had a gun or not".

"Suppose you had a gun". "I would do what I did on Malta during the siege (doing the same civilian job). Then, when the air raid siren went I would put the top on my pen, climb out of the window and up the fire escape, and man my Lewis gun".

"Thank you, I don't think we have any more questions". That was the end of a proposal to 'militarise the RN Supply and Transport Service).

And one member of the service shot down an Argentinian plane with a machine gun strapped to a guard rail.

[Br9mp81]

Civvy FFTRS that worked on the old Army Fire Service stations did N I,Norway balkans and Middle east, civvy FFTRs on RAF camps did Falklands, Sardina and Germany as detachments