Roll vs Dutch Roll

[Madhatter]

Just out of sheer curiosity as I’ve discovered that some stations/areas prefer to roll hose differently from others. What’s the general consensus on here for the pros and cons for normal rolled hose and Dutch rolled? 

My inexperienced first thought is Dutch roll would be quicker to roll out and make up? So figured it would be the norm? 

[CaptainFlack]

Oh no !!!  You have asked THAT question on here....

Standby.......

[Carl]

Now you have really started a war @Con 😂

Im going to keep out of this one for the time being at least, simply because, this topic became the longest, most popular, most viewed topic on our old forum and on went on for a number of years. In fact I think it only stopped when we moved onto the new forum. 

Let the fun begin.

[Madhatter]

There was me assuming it was a standard silly question 😂 

The reason I ask is because I am being taught rolled as per training manual and fairly so, but have been told that the likelihood is that on station it will be Dutch roll 🤦🏼😂

[Dyson]

Dutch is better. Is this fella gonna start a topic about guidelines next ? 🙈

[Rory-495]

My opinion, with Dutch rolled I can bowl 2 70mm hoses, grab the couplings and run them out simultaneously - which works for the LFB rules of ALWAYS twinning hydrants.

With the other method I either run them out one by one or bowl them and potentially watch it fall flat on its side, necessitating me running it out as per the first method

Dutch rolled or Cleveland loaded for me every day!

[J.Tredgett]

On my station we standard role all 8x 70mm, then on each side (nearside/offside lockers) we have 2 standard 45mm and 2 dutch 45mm. This has worked well for us cause you get the choice of picking the right one for the job at hand. 

I am a huge fan of the dutch role though the speed of fireground set up is great, you can throw 2 45mm jets for the BA crew and they are already flaked and ready to go at the door. 

To throw a curve ball we also carry 1" lay flat hose which is all dutch rolled, its saved us a slog on many occasions running hose up a hill through woodland to a small to medium fire that cant quite be done with a backpack sprayer. 

[Luminoki]

Oh dear ….anyway, in west mids we have 45mm hose dutch rolled, 64mm “normal” rolled, both in the same locker. Then we have a dutch rolled length in the pump bay if the driver needs to get a jet run out quickly. 

We also have cleveland and flaked lengths for the highrise pack plus 6 flaked connected lengths in our hose coffin

[Crog]

I’ve gone from a service that was all Dutch rolled, bar a couple of 51mm lengths stowed Cleveland lay, to a service that has the 45mm Dutch and the 70mm conventional. Much prefer Dutch rolled.

[Jet]

I'm gonna go full tin-hat mode and declare that the way we stow and deploy hose in this country is on the most part ridiculous and archaic. For me, if you want to see how it should be done look overseas...

[OscarTango]

There talk of us going over to 50mm hose to do away with both 64 and 45. If you're going to do that then theres no real reason you couldn't Cleveland lay a good size jet in both lockers.

Surrey have two flaked 45s in box on the nearside it think (can't remember!) ready to go. No real reason why we can't work things out to have the preconnected.

[Jet]

I would settle for anything that isn't time consuming to deploy and isn't back-breaking to make up. It does exist and has been in the infamous 'too difficult' section of the UK fire service for decades. 

[TandA]

We carry a bit of both.  I prefer standard on the coupling rolled hose as I have yet to see dutch rolled hose go even vaguely where I wanted when going across rough terrain / ploughed fields.  

We used to have two connected flaked lengths of 45mm on each side and they were great to deploy quickly if needed but they went in the name of progress in a stowage redesign.

Cleveland roll has been mentioned a few times but unfortunately as yet it hasn’t gained any traction here.

[Messyshaw]

On 21/07/2021 at 01:19, Dyson said:

Dutch is better. Is this fella gonna start a topic about guidelines next ? 🙈

Dutch rolled guidelines? 😳😳

[Kinmel]

In the late 1960s, many brigades already had pre-connected 45mm 

Birkenhead FB had flaked 63mm, folded and strapped for shoulder carrying.  2 crew could lay 8 lengths without returning to the pump, or hydrant.  Trials had shown no other system worked better, whatever the ground conditions, but the 1974  amalgamations brought back mediocre standardisation.

 

[CaptainFlack]

Cleveland all day for me. Easier to handle, saves the back plus it's the gold standard for high rise operations now. Albeit 52mm

In GMFRS the rolled hose lies in the offside rear locker at the bottom. I reckon you could stow the same amount we have now on top of one another - velcro strapped ready for whatever 

[Healdav]

Try the Continental system of 200m metres of hose on a reel that has to be dragged and all the hose unrolled before water on.

Dragged as in uphill thorough the forest to a fire, or whatever.

Nightmare I would imagine, although conversations with firefighters have not led to complaints. They take it for granted, not having known anything else.

[WTTJ]

We go conventional for 70

Dutch for 45

Most trucks will have one cleveland 45 though

[HB2016]

We are conventional for 70, Dutch for 45 and 1 Cleveland length. Some stations do have 1 or 2 Dutch rolled 70's but it's more of an ism than the norm.

Being the worst bowler of all time - I'm not sure I'm keen on Dutch rolling everything 😄.

[Carl]

Ive just worked some magic and looked at the old forum, not an easy task. The topic was started on the 22 May 2005 and ran for over 14 years 😆 

Im looking forward to this boosting the forum post numbers too

[Messyshaw]

@Carl A 14 year debate on the best way to roll hose? 🤣🤣🤣🤣

Only firefighters have this sort of stamina - probably because they spend so much time in bed 🤔😉

[Dan J]

We have embraced Dutch since the Infamous 14 year debate! We've gone from fully conventional roll to :

70mm all conventional roll

45mm mix of conventional and Dutch

52mm Cleveland 

[Madhatter]

I must admit after being on station now, I prefer Dutch roll 

[LFB92]

I just can’t think of a situation where conventional is better

[Steve]

On 20/07/2021 at 23:31, Carl said:

Now you have really started a war @Con 😂

Im going to keep out of this one for the time being at least, simply because, this topic became the longest, most popular, most viewed topic on our old forum and on went on for a number of years. In fact I think it only stopped when we moved onto the new forum. 

Let the fun begin.

🤣🤣

On 24/07/2021 at 12:56, Jet said:

I'm gonna go full tin-hat mode and declare that the way we stow and deploy hose in this country is on the most part ridiculous and archaic. For me, if you want to see how it should be done look overseas...

I've been into Europe and the US quite a bit to look at their Firefighting, in Europe the Dutch roll is prolific, where they don't use the hose carts hooked on the back of their pumps. In the US, they have hose beds, which we just don't have but where they do use a roll, they call it a 'donut' and it is rolled on the bight so dutch rolled. I'm interested to see what else you are talking about beyond flaked or 'Cleveland' for high rise packs which is now used over here anyway?

In the years since this topic was started... I think I may have started it, Carl will confirm.... I am pleased to see more Brigades have gone over to Dutch, which without my interference would seem to prove a point so I'll say no more... 😉

In terms of difficulty... practice makes perfect, I used it for 31 years (yes I wasn't beyond throwing out a line of hose, even in my more senior positions) and more often than not, once you get used to it, it throws out well.