Apprenticeships?

[Charlie_]

@Rory-495 was your EPA cancelled along with the rest of the courses?

[Lumie]

@Charlie_ mine has been as well as the other buck on station  

In all honesty, would it be out of touch to propose something like a remote EPA? We’ve already sat the test that had to be invigilated. We could record ourselves doing a few ladder pitches and a composite drill at station in the yard, and we could do the professional discussion over the phone? 
 

saves them getting backlogged with courses, and gets us off our books quicker.

[Rory-495]

Yep ours was cancelled a few days before it was due.

Frustrating as we cannot be signed off as competent until apprenticeship is completed and the way it's going it's going to be a while until covid clears while my subo, SC and BC are aiming to have me signed off bang on my 18 months in August. So I'll be losing money because of no EPA!

[Charlie_]

That’s what I was concerned about you guys not being able to come off your books because of apprenticeship delays.  
Will probably cause a backup for us as well, our gateway was cancelled last month, our EPA in July is yet to be cancelled, not holding my breath though 

@Lumie Have you spoken to the apprenticeship coaches about the possibility of doing your EPA remotely? 

[Lumie]

@Charlie_ I’ll propose it to my guv when he’s back from being sick and ask him. I don’t want to paint a target on my back for being a ‘know it all’ or whatever. Just something I thought of last tour.

[Keith]

10 hours ago, Rory-495 said:

Frustrating as we cannot be signed off as competent until apprenticeship is completed and the way it's going it's going to be a while until covid clears while my subo, SC and BC are aiming to have me signed off bang on my 18 months in August. So I'll be losing money because of no EPA!

If your Sub, SC and BC are happy to sign you off, surely this should be good enough to meet the criteria for the apprenticeship? Isn't this exactly what is happening in schools and colleges, where instead of external exams or assessments it's your teachers or tutors who are in effect awarding your grade, based on your past work? 

[Rory-495]

As far as I can tell that isn't an option. It's an external company that assesses us so can't be LFB or Babcock who do it. But I'm going to email my apprenticeship coach and chase it up

[Dash]

Would be interested to know how apprentice pay compares to regular WT recruit pay in brigades other than LFB. This thread seems to suggest that LFB pay both equally. But Cumbria, for example, advertises that apprentice pay is much less (£153.55/week, rather than trainee salary of £22,908). I guess it's another way they can save a bit of money with apprenticeships, if they can get away with it? Seems a bit odd though, if the program is (intended to be) standardised across the FRS.

[Lumie]

@Dash the biggest (arguably own) benefit apprenticeships have for brigades is the fact they get grants and tax reliefs for having X amount of apprenticeships on the payroll per Y amount of staff. It seems unfair to pay apprentices less than what previous WT recruits were getting, because apprentices do more work than before (have to go back to training venues at certain points in their career for different reasons, which before wasn’t happening).

[LFB92]

@Lumie London WT recruits had workshops the same as the new apprentices

[Harve88]

Also the apprentices do a shorter (11week) course than previous recruits.

To say they have to do more work is questionable 

[Magga110]

Regarding LFB apprenticeships

I am the 2nd batch of squads on this apprenticeship and have been informed that the cohort that was behind us are having there EPA next week.!?! And that they didnt have todo the gateway.

One of the lads from my squad has received joining instructions for his EPA scheduled for august but no one else has. Its all very frustrating and obviously communication is zero!

[Out In The Past]

On 24/05/2020 at 13:30, Harve88 said:

Also the apprentices do a shorter (11week) course than previous recruits.

To say they have to do more work is questionable 

In fairness they do 16 but they don’t get paid for 5 of those weeks, which are classed as pre-learning.

[Rory-495]

4 hours ago, Magga110 said:

Regarding LFB apprenticeships

I am the 2nd batch of squads on this apprenticeship and have been informed that the cohort that was behind us are having there EPA next week.!?! And that they didnt have todo the gateway.

One of the lads from my squad has received joining instructions for his EPA scheduled for august but no one else has. Its all very frustrating and obviously communication is zero!

I'm on the first apprenticeship course (16/18) and our EPA was cancelled just after gateway. Not rescheduled yet. Any that were booked and not cancelled yet are going ahead. Our EPA has not been rescheduled and may not be done as a course.

On 24/05/2020 at 13:30, Harve88 said:

Also the apprentices do a shorter (11week) course than previous recruits.

To say they have to do more work is questionable 

What's questionable abo7 it the new course? As stated, we do 5 weeks unpaid learning before plus 3 workshops, station based additional prep and a final assessment. Based off courses in the years before apprenticeship there is definitely more to do and definitely more to do independently 

[Harve88]

I agree the apprenticeship does sound like a bit of nightmare & I’m glad I missed it, but I just don’t think anyone can genuinely say that they have had to do more work than recruits of the past as it’s impossible to say.

From what I gather the recruits training at Southwark used to be longer, stricter and more military style, with longer & possibly harsher probation periods but it’s all swings and roundabouts I guess.

( NB - I also did an 11 week babcock course & personally don’t think you can count the 5 weeks pre learning as part of the course as it was hardly onerous, but that’s also only my opinion )

[Charlie_]

@Rory-495 @Lumie

have you been offered new EPA dates yet?

I’m looking at big learning and there’s EPA’s running every two weeks with a different number spaces available from 1 - 6.
Could be an idea to try get on one of those? If they allow it obviously 

[Rory-495]

Speaking to my SubO who does day 6/7:

If your EPA wasn't cancelled, they're ongoing.

If it was cancelled it will be rescheduled with the minimum 28 day leaf time as per LFB policy.

Rumour is this could be 8 MONTHS before these get booked in, which is outrageous.

Considering a lot of my course, myself included, have finished their books and are ready to sign off in August we are getting irate. Our apprenticeship coach emailed with some waffle email and confirmed that no dates set yet.

So the plan currently is to put in collective grievances given that had covid not hit us we would be signed off and 500 quid better off a month.

But all EPA are being held at Harrow now and been given some more details should you want them 

[Magga110]

Being the 2nd cohort on the apprenticeship mate i too would like to be involved in this. Keep me posted

[Lumie]

The response I got from my apprenticeship coach is they’re going to reschedule but cannot promise it’ll be done by August. My SubO is furious. He’s talking to SC, BC, DAC about Babcocks awful handling of this and I’m going down Union route.

Withholding our competence is not acceptable in my opinion. All they had to do was push everyone’s course back and begin from the first course. To allow everyone else’s course to go ahead is not okay.

[CaptainFlack]

Those in the cohorts above us in GMFRS are on comp money as soon as they enter the gateway.  Regardless of when the EPA is.

[Charlie_]

I can understand the logistical difficultly that comes with booking courses where everyone is at different stations and watches to be together, but there’s absolutely no reason they can’t trickle people in on free spaces to join other cohorts 

@Rory-495 Would take any information you’ve got on the EPA, always appreciated 

[Rory-495]

Apprenticeship End Point Assesment booked!

In all seriousness (and not a defence of Babcock!) They are having to fit in BA, IEC, Incident command training in following covid cancellations into a limited number of venues. Some IEC courses are even being done in hotels!

But anyone waiting for an EPA to be booked, pester your coaches as much as possible as often as possible and your course will be booked before you know it!

[Magga110]

After they told me 2-3 weeks for my results i have now 6 weeks later received my EPA results and have achieved a pass mark, this coupled with the completion of my PDR has made for a great few days.

Couple of beers tonight me thinks 🍻 

[Rory-495]

Well done!

Guy on our reds has been waiting over 6 weeks now. They seem properly out of their depth with managing all of this.

Funnily enough I was at FSC last week on an IC course and my assessor told me he was doing apprentice assessments but had to stop because of how badly it's being managed across the country. So it's not just LFB/Babcock struggling with the process

[Magga110]

Yup, the rediculas thing id like too know is, 

my pdr was signed off before i passed my EPA, say i failed my EPA and still gained competency could i just sack off the EPA haha, Be interesting too know as the 2 are obviously separate

Which station you at? My lff was on that course from Bexley. 

Iv got a feeling the lad on the reds at your station was in my squad and found out today?