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Coming out of the Pension Scheme


Rory-495

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Hi guys,

Having only recently joined LFB, I've already come across a few people who have come out if the pension for a variety of different reasons, some for the short term, some completely.

I'm considering coming out for a short time (12-18 months) just as a way to put away a few grand towards a deposit on a house (development pay only goes so far and the pension is a big chunk each month!)

Just wondering what people's opinions are on this and if anyone knows how east it is to opt out/rejoin and what the consequences are?

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As a fire service 'pensioner' for 10 years, albeit on the old scheme - I too when through huge financial pain when my son was born.

For various reasons, my wife had to give up work and I was operational and holding down 4 x part time jobs (3 of them zero.hour type contracts). Even then, we had to get a lodger in for a couple of years to help pay the Bill's

The pension contributions were a crippling nightmare and I too toyed with the idea of a contribution holiday. I was advised not to

As I said, this was the old FPS scheme so the rules will be different  but now I am being paid out a full pension and have an almost full time job, life could not be sweeter. 

So please please avoid touching the pension. Rob a bank, send the wife out on the streets or do anything than fiddling with the contributions. You may regret it

Good luck

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The pension is essentially a pay rise as we get 20% tax relief. I understand the need for extra money but I’d advise working on your 3 days off until you have the deposit ready. 

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Mate i’d be out delivering pizzas or stacking shelves rather than coming out of the pension scheme. Problem you could face is that once youve got that deposit for your nice semi you could very well end up staying out of it “cos the house has rising damp/needs new windows/the boilers knackered” and then it could be the pitter patter of tiny feet and then you will definately need the money. This is coming from experience, all of the above happened within an 18 month development and it was tough. I had a second job that was just paying for the fuel to get to work! Get used to going without the £300 a month and find ways to scrimp and save. Maybe someone on your watch could do with a casual labourer or could put you in touch with someone that could put some work your way

Daftest reason ive heard to not being in the pension was one lad using it to pay for the finance deal on his Discovery ( which he no longer owns )

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I’ve been told by my watch that the brigade are hot on outside employment during development. There’s no point applying for it like you’re meant to because you’ve got no chance of it being approved, so I guess it comes down to keeping it off the books and quiet? I’m not sure... I’m in the same boat as Rory, young and looking at putting money away for a house but on development pay it simply isn’t viable. I guess ‘suck it up’ for the 18 months and then start saving once that sweet £8k payrise comes in and you can have a second job properly.

 

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I know a few people who have come out of the pension scheme at some stage or another. Ive never really asked why, just know they have. However, they have indicated that they wish they hadn't done so. I would certainly get the right advice, even from a financial adviser if need be. I spoke to one when I first started as I had an ongoing pension. Once he knew I had joined the job, he said nothing could match it, nothing touches it, so coming out wouldn't be a good idea.

Each to their own though. Good luck with whatever you decide. I can't imagine how hard it is now to get a deposit. 

Ill not beat @Messyshaw on this one as he is really old, but I paid £14,000 for my first house back in 1988. 😮

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11 minutes ago, Carl said:

Ill not beat @Messyshaw on this one as he is really old, but I paid £14,000 for my first house back in 1988. 😮

Er, @Carl - I might be ancient, but as I bought in London, you will beat me! I paid £24,900 for my first home -a 2 x bed flat 16 miles west of central London on the London/Bucks borders in 1982. Definitely nothing around then in Greater London for £14k in 1982, let alone in 1988

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Ahhh, yes, London prices. Didn't take that into account. 

Probably why the Northern Brigades are more attractive to some. @Jet will probably notice a difference moving South to North. 

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@Lumie - is that actually a thing from the brigade officially? I’m planning on staying retained where I live outside of London on my off days (it’s relatively quiet) and keeping up my freelance computer-based work. Hopefully that’s not likely to cause issues!

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I was contemplating staying out of it for my development and them joining it once competent due to taking a 8k paycut to do the job. The wife and I looked at the finances and worked out if we where careful we could live comfortably. 

To put it into perspective we have two mortgages (one is payed for by renting it out) the wife is self employed, two kids, a car on a lease and childcare to pay for. It's tight but we crack on. 

Come Feb next year I get my competent pay and in Oct the car goes back and we get the free childcare hours! Might be able to go abroad again then! 

I've heard in our neck of the woods that the pension pot for those that have retired is not in the best state due to not as many people paying into it anymore. 

We are not allowed to 'part time' in our development stage here either. Once competent we can then apply to part time. 

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@Lumie - not sure who told you that but think they might be having you on. Go into your Station Forms folder on the drive and you’ll find the Application for Secondary Employment Form. Fill it in and, as long as your SM moves it along fairly quickly, you’ll have clearance in less than a month. Mine was on the SM’s desk for about 2 months so it took a while, but that was exceptional. He’ll ask your WM if they have any problem with it and then send it to HR. You’ll get an acknowledgement email and a ‘granted’ email around a week later. Just don’t do it on station 😉.

I know guys working as lifeguards, guys doing retained, builders, carpenters, cabbies... the list goes on. None of them have had their requests for secondary employment turned down. The worst they can do is say no. I think the only reason for HR rejecting it would be if it conflicts with Brigade activities e.g. carrying out risk assessments in London.

I’m sure there’ll be people that say development FFs shouldn’t be working two jobs. It’s really not feasible living on development money when you don’t live next door to the station and your season ticket (from 30 miles away) would cost 5 grand annually.

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I know loads of development firefighters in LFB who’ve got permission from the brigade to part time. Up to you whether you actually request permission or not though. 

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6 minutes ago, LFB92 said:

Up to you whether you actually request permission or not though

True- but it’s sackable if they find out...

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13 hours ago, Carl said:

Probably why the Northern Brigades are more attractive to some. @Jet will probably notice a difference moving South to North. 

The houses price were THE reason me and my wife moved up north (being near her family factored into the decision). Getting on to the property ladder in London as a firefighter is nigh on impossible, particularly if you are single. Part ownership is the only feasible option but there are so many criteria to fulfil and competition for the properties, it brings its own complications.

As for coming out the pension; don't (see reasons above).

As for secondary employment as FF(D); never heard that one before. Brigade have no real right to refuse you permission to work over someone else just because they are competent.

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I spoke to a financial advisor who advised me to not leave the pension even temporarily when I joined up so I would say stay in it before you get used to the money 

What @Lumie says about the secondary employment isn’t true, I don’t know one development FF in LFB to be turned down  secondary employment 

Speak to your SM and I’m sure as long as it doesn’t affect your main job they shouldn’t have any problem

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I may just have an old fashioned watch who think I should be focusing solely on the brigade then perhaps!? It’s been bought up a few times and each time the conversations gone, roughly, “once you finish development you can do what you want”.

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That’s bollox.  Work your nuts off while in work but your time on your days off is your business and nobody else’s.

As for the pension, for me it depends on how long you plan on being a member for? 

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5 hours ago, Lumie said:

I may just have an old fashioned watch who think I should be focusing solely on the brigade then perhaps!? It’s been bought up a few times and each time the conversations gone, roughly, “once you finish development you can do what you want”.

I think to understand this you have to understand the culture of part timing (down the rabbit hole we go). A lot of people out there take great exception to anyone doing part time. Some people give the age old impression of treating firefighting as their part time job and then you have the people that just. Won't. Stop. Talking. About. It. My advice is get on with it and don't fall into any of the above categories. Noddy is right, it's none of anyone's business, that is until you make it someone's business.

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On 28/07/2019 at 23:12, Lumie said:

I’ve been told by my watch that the brigade are hot on outside employment during development. There’s no point applying for it like you’re meant to because you’ve got no chance of it being approved, so I guess it comes down to keeping it off the books and quiet? I’m not sure... 

Myth... There is a lot wrong with that, there is also PLENTY of time during the tour to ensure developmental FF’s are doing just that. I happily approved outside employment for one of my Ff(D)’s last year and I’m an SM in the same Brigade as you. Take Noddy’s advice!

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There’s nothing in the policy (551 I think it is) that says you can’t have secondary employment while FFD, so that’s definitely not an official LFB position, but I too have heard it murmured.

I’ve spoken to a few FFDs who have said they too have come out of the pension. Completely understandable as it is a good £3-400 and admittedly I’ve thought the same, however, as alluded to above, my worry is there would never be a good time for me lose that money at a later stage in life and I’d never actually re-join. 

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Evening.

One very important thing that has not been mentioned. If you are out of the pension there will be no death in service payment, no widows pension, no due to service pension if you got injured.

Do you really want to leave your family with no financial support if the worse happens?

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I think some people underestimate how important a pension is to be honest, or how difficult it can be to source an alternative. I had one person ask me why I was in the pension scheme... my answer to that was simply ‘because I need a pension’. Someone else asked me why I didn’t come out of the pension scheme and buy and rent out a house instead, and use that as a ‘nice little pension pot’. I had to explain that as I’m still trying to get the money together to buy my first house, I can hardly afford to buy a second house to rent out.

My answer to coming out would be no no no no no. You’ll miss whatever contributions you skip when retirement comes around. There’s better ways to save. What would the 60 year old you, the one who is nackered and ready to throw in the towel, say to the you now? I don’t reckon he’d want to give you any of his hard earned pension 😉

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