Coming out of the Pension Scheme

[Steve]

A message from your future self;

"PLEASE DON'T LEAVE THE PENSION, EVEN FOR A 'FEW MONTHS'... WHICH YOU'LL PROBABLY NEVER GET ROUND TO REJOINING"

You don't know what your circumstances will be and how badly you'd regret doing it. Like everyone else says, don't throw away future security for a short term gain today. Do some work outside, keep it between you and your SM if people (likely in a more comfortable position) look down their nose.

I joined at 18 and started paying the pension, in those times, I simply did as I was told, didn't even think about retirment or a pension, I was just over the moon to have got into the LFB. In fact, my first two years payments didn't even count (I got a nice pension holiday at the end of my career thanks to the FBU age discrimination case).

Anyway, 7 years in, with high mortgage payments, a baby, my wife having to go back to work after only 6 weeks maternity leave, things were grim. Even though I'd been promoted to Lff and was acting Sub O on and off, we were broke. I was doing 'The Knowledge' to drive a black cab in London and on top of that was doing a bit of part time work where I could, never did I even consider leaving the pension or suspending payments.... I don't even know if I could have at that point. I just took it as part of my deductions and pended worrying about it for the future.

30 very quick years after I joined, I was a year and a bit away from 50. Because I was lucky enough to have tapered protection from the old scheme (not full protection) it meant I could retire at 50 (up to 51 and a half in fact) without being transferred to the new scheme. I was incredibly lucky as I was literally one of the very last of my age who could do that.

The decision to go at 50 was made for me with the pension holiday etc. So I retired as a GM after 31 and a bit years, a year ago.

OK, it was the old scheme, so it pays more than the current scheme. But I walked out with a lump sum of £250k and every month I wake up and without lifting a finger there is £2450 in my account for the rest of my life (this will also increase with CPI after I turn 55 in 4 years time). I can't even begin to tell you how this is worth many times more than the hard days we had when we were younger. I only have to do a couple of days work per week to make the difference up between my pension and wages, let alone all of the nice things we've been able to do with the lump sum. I actually work quite a bit, so in fact I'm now better off than I have ever been.

I'm not being smug or gloating.... I got what I got based on the time I joined, the age I was and my rank. But a Ff who is on the new scheme who remains as a Ff and takes a Ff's pension some time in the future, will still be a lot better off than many of his or her peers. There will always be the odd property millionaire, city trader, footballer or internet geek who we went to school with that hits the big time, but by and large we are surrounded my normal people with normal wages, outgoings and aspirations.

You will get more out of it than you ever paid in, especially if you live to a grand old age (What do you think they were so desperate to change it). But one thing is certain. It's a tough, dirty and dangerous job, the money is never going to be brilliant. However, as it stands, the pension is one of the best out there and why everyone who gets in and stays in ends up 'winning the lottery' That is a fair reward for the years of crap we take and poor wages, do not throw that one benefit away.

[LFB92]

Just realised I’ve got 33 years until retirement. Good luck @Lumie with 41years!

 

[TandA]

Steve hits the nail on the head as usual.  Despite all the detrimental changes the Govt has made to fire service pensions, it is still one of the best schemes out there.  To put it in a bit of context, I am RDS so have a bit of fire service pension accruing through that and I pay into a money purchase pension with my primary employer.  My RDS earnings, and so my pension contribution, are about a third of the WT equivalent amounts but I expect to retire at 55 with a pension of around £7k after 25 years service.  In my primary employment, I will have been paying in about 15% of my earnings for over 40 years by the time I retire from that job and yet that pension will probably pay me £15k from age 65 IF the investments do ok over the next 15 years. 

Compare the amounts of pension I will get, where the fire service will be around half my primary employment pension, to the amounts I will have paid in where the fire service is nearer 20% of the amount for 50% of the time!  And the fire pension is guaranteed rather than dependant on investments and it will pay me out a decade earlier.

You really do want to sacrifice all you can rather than give up the pension.

[Mx19]

On 28/07/2019 at 23:12, Lumie said:

I’ve been told by my watch that the brigade are hot on outside employment during development. There’s no point applying for it like you’re meant to because you’ve got no chance of it being approved, so I guess it comes down to keeping it off the books and quiet? I’m not sure... I’m in the same boat as Rory, young and looking at putting money away for a house but on development pay it simply isn’t viable. I guess ‘suck it up’ for the 18 months and then start saving once that sweet £8k payrise comes in and you can have a second job properly.

This is incorrect. I’m on development and had permission from month 2 I also know of 4 other recruits with permission.

[Lumie]

I really don’t want to p*ss off my watch by getting a second job, but I could sure do with one now I know this!

[HoldFast]

@Lumie I understand not wanting to get on the wrong side of people when you’re new into the job. But it really is feck all to do with them. If you’re giving it 100% when you’re at work then there’s nothing anyone can say. There are characters in the job that have a knack for making people feel uncomfortable, but you’ll get to a point where you realise their opinion means nothing to you.

[Luminoki]

Hypothetical situation for you and anyone else considering it. You come out the pension for your development so thats an extra £300 in your pocket for 18ish months. You get signed off, get that sweet competancy pay of an extra £300ish a month and go back into the pension. Your bank balance now reflects that you are no better off financially aside from the £5400 you have saved up to go towards a shoebox of a flat

[TrainHardFightEasy]

Lumie -like others have said if you are need of a few extra quid then make sure you get your secondary employment sorted ASAP. 

[Lumie]

Spoke to my guv last night. He said that I *could* but my SM is unlikely to approve it. I’m going to try sort a meeting with my WM and SM next tour. Cheers for the help guys!

[LFB92]

Bang out of order if they don’t approve It. Development wages are pony and they don’t know your personal circumstances. For all anyone knows you could have a young family to provide for and being told you can’t work on your days off to make a living is a joke. Put a request in mate, and do it for days 6/7 and they have no reason to say no. 

[Aspire]

Lumps, have you read the policy, it details under what circumstances you may receive ‘answer no’; I’m pretty certain being on development is not one of them.

[LFB92]

On 02/08/2019 at 16:06, Lumie said:

Spoke to my guv last night. He said that I *could* but my SM is unlikely to approve it. I’m going to try sort a meeting with my WM and SM next tour. Cheers for the help guys!

Lumie how did you get on? I finally put in the form for part timing and was approved straight away. 

[Lumie]

@LFB92 nothing as of yet. My SM is SM for a couple stations and we haven’t seen him in a while. I don’t want to just dump a letter on his desk, I’d much rather talk to him about my circumstances before doing so. 

I’m considering sending him an email soon enough. This month has been pretty rough for money.

[Steve]

@Lumie

This isn't right. There is no way you should be struggling if you have opportunities elsewhere to earn money to live a reasonable life.

I'm going to be very frank here. From where you are, quite rightly,  you have a lot of respect for your Stn O and Stn Commander. However, from where I was before I retired, I found both (by and large) to be a pain in the ar$e, increasingly needy and unable to make a decision. I'd often find myself metaphorically banging their heads together (Aspire, one of the good ones will testify). That view is also increasingly held further up the organisation as well.

They are not going to sack you or hold up your development in any way if you are producing the goods. In reality (as I once proved with the help of the Union when I wanted to keep my Black Taxi licence operating when I became ADO 15 years ago) there is actually nothing they can do outside of your contracted hours

The bottom line is, unless what you are doing is in conflict with your employers business, they have no say. Junior and Middle Managers have no hold over what you do with your private life once you are off duty unless that brings the service into disrepute, which will then be in breach of the contract you signed.

It's a bit like them telling you where to take your kids, what clothes to wear at home, what time you need to go to bed, what TV you can watch.... Ultimately, do what you need to do. Unless you are going to appear on TV, decorate the house next to your Station Commander, park a builders van or black cab in the yard or be the Stn O's wife's hairdresser who the f@ck will even know, so 'permission' in itself is dubious?

I think you need to put your big boy pants on and get on with your life.... the LFB is only one small part of your life, do the right thing by the rest of it.

Who are these people? Give me their names and I'll read them their fortune. 😡

[Messyshaw]

4 hours ago, Steve said:

Who are these people? Give me their names and I'll read them their fortune. 😡

@Steve you have been watching too many episodes of The Sopranos.

This inaction by your management is either incompetence (likely) or abuse of authority - both ways its crap

Whats happened to employers looking after the welfare of their staff? Or is that just a LFB sound bite wheeled out when the press are around?  I accept you are in a difficult place, but keep on trying and if you hit a brick wall, perhaps have a chat with your union rep

[TrainHardFightEasy]

Totally agree with all the comments, if you need some extra money to pay the bills then its essential you get this issue signed off. However, once the money starts coming in be careful not to treat your main job like its the part time job. Thats certainly been done before now.

[LFB92]

@Steve is bang on. It’s F all to do with the brigade what we do on our days off. I’ve been part timing since day 1 (although I’ve only just done the form) and if I was told answer no I’d still just do it anyway. Unless they’re gonna give us a substantial pay rise, most of the brigade will be out part timing.

Also the issue with being in development. Once I leave station end of my tour, all thoughts of development book, policies etc go straight to the back of my mind. Make sure you do what you need to do when you’re at work and do what you want when your not! 

PS on nights ask your guvnor for the ladder as you’ve had a busy day part timing, they’ll understand 😉

[Becile]

@LFB92 just be careful in yr advice of doing it anyway, whilst I would suspect there aren’t many employers that would say no, it could well be a sackable offence, in regard to your organisation I don’t know. Then yr part time “fiddle” could become your only income.

[Steve]

@Becile They'd be on very shaky ground. LFB in any case are always well on the cautious side of any judgement. They have gone to ridiculous lengths to avoid sacking those (including probationers) who are well over the line.... such is their fear of getting it wrong and ending up in a ET.

I don't know the WM, but realised after looking at the Lad's profile who the SM is..... I'll leave it there. 😡😡🤡

The BC is sound though, a good old boy from the old school. Hopefully common sense will prevail.

[Firestorm]

On 29/07/2019 at 17:02, Lumie said:

I may just have an old fashioned watch who think I should be focusing solely on the brigade then perhaps!? It’s been bought up a few times and each time the conversations gone, roughly, “once you finish development you can do what you want”.

As long as it doesn't affect your performance at work, it's non of your watches business. 

On 29/07/2019 at 21:08, Lumie said:

@Noddy only 41 years to go mate😂

😨 I'll either be dead or dribbling by then!

On 31/07/2019 at 21:50, Lumie said:

I really don’t want to p*ss off my watch by getting a second job, but I could sure do with one now I know this!

Perhaps they could bung you a few extra quid a tour, or mind their own business.

[Lumie]

Update: SM came in couple days back and I managed to get a quick word in before shipping off to a indirect standby. He said he appreciated asking before submitting the form, and in reflection he will be happy to look at my application the same as he would for any other person in the station.

Mission success. Now I just need to get the application to him😂

[Firestorm]

Don't take no for an answer.

[Rory-495]

Update a year after I posted this (and as a message to any recruits who were in my position) - DO NOT LEAVE THE PENSION!

Now being off my book and paid the full wage made all the difference. If you hate being on the lower pay just work hard to get signed off on the 18 month mark! 

I'm laughing at the naivety of my original post with a hint of cringeworthyness

[Toffer]

@Rory-495 good advice, and interesting to read all the comments regarding part time jobs. If I ever manage to get past the interview stage and get in I would definitely need a second job. There is no way me and my family could survive on a development wage!