GMFRS Appliances

[Jet]

Following on from the GMFRS programme for change topic

@Mess6311 GMFRS have shiny new pumps sitting in a factory in Scotland ready to go and I think their arrival will be imminent so that is also a positive. But you are right in saying there is still loads more to address, especially on the 'response' side of the triangle that Andy alluded to. I suggest an end to vanity projects such as lances and drones and maybe get some ladders that don't have rusty jack beams? ?

[Mess6311]

The shiny new pumps unfortunately total 10. We have up to 60 in the fleet that we need to renew and get rid of. Management like to think of us as the biggest best thing outside of london. Lets start acting and spending like it

[CaptainFlack]

New pumps ? Haven't they all just had a refurbishment? Front facing seats and new LEDs ?

[Mess6311]

Most of them are 8/9 years old and should never have been refurbished. Currently at my station our 1st is a 05 plate and the 2nd is a 57 plate although thats broken and we have a 52 plate reserve on that are all a bag of crap. 

Oh and none of those have been turned around or have LED lighting.

[CaptainFlack]

Bit of a waste of money then if they're due replacement. TRU guys have a fancy machine or two so the money must be there.

Are they keeping with Volvo?

[Jet]

I think (don’t quote me) it was £20k to convert each appliance. Now that is easily a tenth of the cost of a new appliance. The 57 plate Volvos desperately need replacing but I don’t think the 2010/11 Volvos particularly do, they are still decent enough especially with the cab conversions. But I don’t think 10 will be the final order, I’m sure it will be a programme that takes some time to roll out.

@CaptainFlack yep, staying with same Volvo chassis.

[Mess6311]

Problems are rife with those shiney new TRU trucks. The 60 plates don't really need replacing but we have no serviceable reserves so if we replace them at least we will have something of a reserve fleet for c routines, breakdowns and crashed wagons. There is no resilience in the system currently

 

[Jet]

What are the problems with the TRUs? If it’s the collision avoidance system then afraid they will be on all new fire engines no matter what we buy. 

[Mess6311]

A lot of electrical issues of various types according to some of the lads at workshops

[Keith]

I've split this part about the appliances off from the GMFRS programme for change post, as it deserves discussion in its own right and does raise a few questions.

Firstly I'm surprised by this from @Mess6311

Quote

Currently at my station our 1st is a 05 plate and the 2nd is a 57 plate although thats broken and we have a 52 plate reserve on that are all a bag of crap. 

I thought the lifespan of a front line pumping appliance, was 10 years and then they could run for a further 2 or 3 as reserve or training appliance. In your case you're running  11, 13 and 16 year old appliances, not good.

On a different point, @Jamiejet you mention collision avoidance system. I thought that was still only something for top end cars, is it fitted on some of the appliances and does it work? 

[Jet]

It's part of the new EU regulations for all trucks, and fire appliances are not currently exempt. As I understand 'making progress' as we call it can be quite challenging and actually dangerous with this new system. It works brilliantly from a safety perspective when driving normally. But as you can imagine, when driving on blue lights when you are approaching slowing/stopping vehicles at speed with a view to overtaking them, the on board computer doesn't know this and thinks you are about to rear end them, so on come the anchors. Not good! Our newest Volvos have speed limiters but they are disabled upon activation of the blue lights. The same should be for this system in my opinion.

[Keith]

I haven't come across this yet, it certainly wasn't fitted on last years batch of Volvo's we got, the speed limiter though has been fitted for a few years now. I don't like the sound of the system at all, it would be an absolute nightmare especially if you're trying to negotiate heavy traffic.

[Matt]

The on board computers with the latest batch around here caused some issues with the Scania and all the extras they come with.  Took a few visits to sort but eventually got ironed out.

Trucks spend around 12 years frontline and then a further 2 or 3 in reserve/training, although with advances and properly maintained they are looking to extend this.  If a vehicle is maintained well, overall say at 10 years no reason why you cannot get 20 years out of one.

I had a conversation with a chap last weekend (at a motor museum) and there was lot classics all running, he said with all the electronics in a vehicle now what are the chances you can keep them running, mechanically they maybe sound but the electronics will likely fail and will struggle to replace.  I fear this maybe the way with appliances.  I'm involved in preservation of all sorts of old stuff not a computer in sight and they can all be fixed and parts sourced give or take.  

As regards to Manchester, 10 on order and in build as we speak, a further 14 for delivery over 19/20.

[Jet]

I believe it was on LFB's new MK3 Merc's. I never actually drove one so I'm not 100% certain. I guy I transferred into GMC with who was from Cheshire also said they were having problems with this system on their new appliances.

I read recently that FDNY do not keep a machine on the frontline for longer than seven years ?

[Carl]

3 minutes ago, Matt said:

the latest batch around here

Matt, with you not being in the service, and no mention of where you reside, it may be useful to those browsing the threads if you included the FRS you are referring too

[CaptainFlack]

I know specials are a different matter in terms of everyday use but surely they need to be replaced first.  The HPVs that are about date back to 03 with one flying round still on a V plate.

That 4x4 thing from Bolton North is on a T reg, can you still get parts and support for a machine that old?

@Matt - As the guy in the know, I'm sure you mentioned new aerial appliances some years back on a post, are these being replaced.?

[Jet]

Aerial fleet is being modernised, I know that much. Last time I was at Central they were talking about getting a 42M TL.

[Matt]

In answers to Carl's question Humberside.

@CaptainFlack they are in build, a 32m and 42m TL, believe at least one is in final stages of build.  Possible order for 2 more too.

[Keith]

@CaptainFlack specials are normally replaced after 15 years, some of the reasons being they don't get the same amount of operational use as you say and no doubt the expense. Regarding HVP's, USAR pods etc all prime movers for them date from 2004 but most have less than 20000 km on the clock. In trucking terms they wouldn't be considered as anywhere near broke in where 250000 km a year is more normal.

[CaptainFlack]

Sorry Keith, I meant GMCs versions of a ALP - hydraulic platform,  not the high volume pump.

I know the booms can be removed and put on newer chassis but I think even these are on their last legs

[Luminoki]

Depends on how looked after they are. Bromsgroves HPs booms dated back to 1977 when it was scrapped in 2013

[Keith]

We still have a Simon HP on the run as well. The original booms date from the 1970's but it has been re-chassised a number of times. Don't know if it will survive this time as we've gone down the TL route for our new aerials.

[Mess6311]

I wish it was made up. Our 1st has gone defective today so we now have 2 52 plate pumps on the run.