ESN Rollout

[MarkG]

I've moved into a new role that ESN will end up being a major part of when it starts to be rolled out, anyone else going to Eastleigh on Wednesday?

MG

[Noddy]

What is esn? 

[Matt]

This is what ESN is, replacement for the Airwave network.

[Steve]

I'll have a months money that'll be another half cocked disaster. It already has significant delays and one of the sub-contracts has fallen over. You'll all be on hastily purchased PAYG mobiles when airwave is switched off at the end fo next year.

Come back and tell me I was wrong.... if you can find me... on a beach somewhere.

[Becile]

Mark,

I hope you are not thinking of moving roles for some time, are we 2 or 3 years projected over at present? I hate to say it, Steve maybe right! 

Get me a Mojito Steve-I'd hate to see you drink alone?

[Matt]

All went to pot when Airwave was sold off from Government, should have been left as it was.

I get the idea of the national network, but the question is how many use it to co-ordinate with other services, other than your ILO's and over the border jobs cannot see much use other than major incident.

Lowland Rescue have built their own digital radio network and they self fund, technology have moved on from what it was before Airwaves, why not bring it back in house, be a dam sight cheaper than the annual bill currently I bet.

I can see the new ESN not be fit for purpose, why make something do difficult when it can be so simple (and cheaper!).

[Carl]

I would be interested to see what the new Samsung handsets look like. Ive become quite attached to my SanJ over the years. 

[Keith]

Does this sound like another FireControl?

[Firestorm]

From the Home office blurb, " It will also be much cheaper than the existing Airwave network." ?

That bodes well, doesn't it?

Carboot comms.

I, like Steve, will watch from afar. ?

[MarkG]

So no one joining me for a drink in the Eastleigh holiday inn ??

[Keith]

Latest update on this, station and watches are being encouraged to wash and save all baked bean tins from the mess and to order balls of string from stores. This will allow station to station communications.

Estates and Transport Services have commenced the roll out of the advanced carrier pigeon protocol for fire ground communications. Lofts will be delivered to stations and carrying baskets fitted to appliances by the end of the month. Training will then be provided to ensure drivers collect the required number of birds from the on duty flight on receipt of a call.

A contract to sweep up all the crap will be awarded in due course.

[Becile]

Matt, I think your comment re usage is fair, in the current operating environment, however  that's  because thats what we've alwas done.  If we get more used to multi agency comms at the lower levels (bronze if you like ) it would aid not only ourselves but the other cat 1 emergency services with timely pertinent resource management and information exchange.

How many times have you turned up at a job called in by other agency/ member of public that the info you got relayed was not  the real picture.

Maybe a talkgroup per job regardless of agency? Yes we'd have to be far more disciplined with voice traffic (more the police really ) but it could work in my view.

[Firestorm]

Becile hits the nail squarely on the head. I can't ever remember a bronze level using the same talk group, although it's simple(ish) to do. I have earwigged their comms a lot at incidents though. An example of turning up to something other than what's on the call slip was Saturday nights "chemical suicide" which was in fact a butane overdose.

I think we've all been to wash down roadway following RTC to find a full extrication is needed. We were sold airway to enhance comms and used it at base level the same way we did analogue.

[Jet]

I’m not sure three or possibly even more services sharing one radio channel at one job would work in practice. Not only would you have the confusion around service specific acronyms and jargon, we would surely have to change channels to send messages to fire control anyway. That is unless the other services don’t mind waiting for us to send our long, dictation speed messages before they can start communicating again! And as Becile points out, police and ambulance don’t use their radios in the same manner as us. They tend to speak as if in normal conversation with each other, the same way we would on our fireground radios, meaning a lot more radio traffic on their part.

I may have got the wrong end of the stick so please correct me if my presumptions/concerns aren’t actually an issue. 

[Becile]

Three services(or more) on the same talkgroup is not the problem to be honest, it happens on certain talkgroups at present (IC1 and ES1 for example) our unique way of talking can be of benefit but also a downfall, this is why plain speak is encouraged when multi agency talkgroup is enacted. Maybe we don't need to send our long dictation speed messages !? And maybe police need to cut down on the chit chat and keep it far more focussed!? Yes we may have to switch talkgroup momentaily to send these, not a problem.

[Matt]

It all comes down to training, what is can and cannot do.  Those well versed something get to know what you can and cannot do, like you say its because it has always been that way so that's how it is.

The Airwaves network had/has lots of potential as does any system like this but no one ever uses all of the features, users will use different bits depending on their role. Some FRS are good at assigning different talk groups per job but then others just use 1 for everything.

I don't know how many different type of organisations are on Airwaves now but you have Fire, Police, Ambulance, Highways England and probably more, one group for a motorway job could save so much time in pinning down a job, unless its a larger than average job I cannot see the need for all to be in one, maybe control rooms to monitor and feedback to local teams?

I have real concerns for the new ESN, yes Airwave has its issues but I think its a far stronger position, just needs some data features adding and brought back into Government control.

I think voice is important as you gather a pictures as the messages come back for a bigger job, there was concern that this would disappear with Airwaves, some still use voice more than others but you know when your on the way to a job you have a good idea of what you are walking into.

How far has the project been pushed back now does anyone know?

[Becile]

At least 15 months (reported) but 2 years is closer

[Keith]

Another fine mess.😠

[Carl]

I think I will be retired before this gets resolved, if it ever does. It one of the biggest contracts out there too. 

[Messyshaw]

On 23/04/2018 at 13:24, Steve said:

I'll have a months money that'll be another half cocked disaster. It already has significant delays and one of the sub-contracts has fallen over. You'll all be on hastily purchased PAYG mobiles when airwave is switched off at the end fo next year.

Come back and tell me I was wrong.... if you can find me... on a beach somewhere.

Steve, if you are not on a beach,  your prediction is becoming reality.

This project certainly looks like FiReControl 2, but even more expensive. Let's hope that unlike it's predessessor it actually gets delivered

The NAO say at least £3.1billion over budget. Let's open a book and see who predicts the nearest amount 🤔🙁

[Becile]

I'll give you 5 billion. And 5 years delay. It's worth a punt, much better odds than the lottery.

[Messyshaw]

I am going £4.8billion, a cancelled project and everyone get Huawei pay as you go mobiles on each appliance, with one battery charger per 2 phones and some semaphore flags as back up

[Steve]

On 11/05/2019 at 12:30, Messyshaw said:

Steve, if you are not on a beach,  your prediction is becoming reality.

This project certainly looks like FiReControl 2, but even more expensive. Let's hope that unlike it's predessessor it actually gets delivered

The NAO say at least £3.1billion over budget. Let's open a book and see who predicts the nearest amount 🤔🙁

Next week I'll be on a beach. 😎