Lorry fire next to LPG Bullet

[Noddy]

Ok you turn up to a job involving an LPG tanker lorry on fire next to the bullet it is filling up.

You are the only truck there with a 2nd at least 8 minutes away.

The fire is contained only to the cab at this point and there is no flame impingement on the bullet when you rock up.

You are on a hospital site by the way. 

What do you do?

 

[Ian]

Recce with a tic, BA crew to get water on immediately, try to locate emergency control valve. Evacuate immediate area. Seems too simple, what's the catch?

[Dyson]

So the fire is confined to the cab...? 

Get info from driver regarding hazards and controlling flow of product etc

Use cover where possible, straight into water, water sprays onto the bullet and and the vehicle tank containing the load, cooling them. knock out the cab fire.

[Noddy]

No catch Ian.

I'd hoped to portray a table top exercise I took part in recently when I was initially at odds with the majority of those present.

You are the only truck, the cab is alight and spreading towards the rear of the truck and the bullet.  There are only 5 of you.

Things put forward were: make pumps 6, withdraw to a safe distance and wait for help.  concentrate on evacuation and source some water.  Deploy jets onto the lorry and bullet.  Most people were 'oh sh1t a lorry fire next to a LPG bullet = major incident.  I suggested a slightly different approach but was shot down... (initially)  

[Ian]

Ok....I'm staying with original plan. I'm concerned if I faff about,  then the drama of shutting down a hospital creates even more of a headache! 4 pumps and not a major incident!!

I guess it depends on how much appetite you have for risk?

 

[Keith]

Does seem a lot have forgotten the basics of firemanship when dealing with incidents. Yes it is important to gather as much information and consider all the risks, but at the end of the day the fire has to still be one of the biggest risks, remove it and guess what, the other risks disappear as well.

Going back to job in question, one hosereel on the fire in the cab, other to cover the tanker and bullet, put the fire out and get the stop in before the circus arrives.

[Noddy]

Nice one Keith! I also said a HR onto the cab.  And yes I agree Ian I guess it can sometimes come down to experience.

I suggested an assistance message requesting a further pump but to deploy a HR onto the cab.  I was criticised for not using a jet on a lorry fire but when I pointed out that the HR wasn't intended to put the fire out per se, rather control it spreading until I had further resources.  I said that a hr gives you longer to control the fire whereas as jet is gone very quickly, then you have no control.  

The bullet wasn't yet involved so why be scared of it? 

[Percy]

There was a similar question on this years Members Ops. Everybody I've spoken to afterwards ran for the hills, hid, closed half of the country off, evacuated Europe, prayed... basically (IMHO) as much over reacting as possible instead of getting some wet stuff onto orange stuff. The ingredients are there but the early information given in both scenarios is far from the catastrophic 'Hollywood' action film (I actually put that verbatim in my answer haha).

I've probably failed though haha... should have got the rosary beads out and ran.

But all joking aside LPG rapidly cools down once the heat has been removed and cooled and what better way to do that than either put the cab out and/or get a water curtain between the cab and onto the tanker and bullets?

 

[Dan J]

I'd agree with hosereel on the cab, knock it down quickly in the window of opportunity,  cool everything else . Possibly consider a curtain spray between cab and LPG. Evacuate immediate area. 

[Cashybai]

Dinosaur here...Wet stuff on hot flicker stuff, call Noddy on for FI, home for tea and medals....

Back to serious, totally agree with all, yes, its LPG, yes its a big tank of LPG, but lets be honest, if you faff the resulting damage and hassle from the bang is going to be sheds worth. I've had a few run ins recently, where a prompt calculated attack has done what we've always done, put the fire out. Cracker was being told at the 5th floor fridge freezer I posted on t'other site that I should have followed procedure and made up and waited for the full high rise attendance rather than put the fire out.....

2x HRJ, 1 with 2BA, straight attack on the lorry cab, second covering/cooling jet on the bullet/hgv trailers, TIC the lot, second truck on to either a) find a hydrant and get it fed to truck 1 b) drop its tank into truck 1 if needed c) both a + b . Only other bit I might do is foam the lot if the appliance onboard foam is working....

[Kinmel]

Back in the day, this used to be a standard fireground exercise for the J.O.A. course at Moreton.

The debrief was.... Minimum use of one HR to contain fire to cab.  Second HR to apply a thin water skin only to the part of the tank nearest the cab, rest of crew find water supply.

Wet steel cannot fail due to overheating, so it cannot B.L.E.V.E.

When Plan A starts to unravel because the water on the tank starts to boil off quicker than you can put it on...  Run.

[Hmckay91]

I have always been amazed that we train to put flammable liquid and flammable gas fires, yet the whole BLEVE risk generally has everyone running for the hills and hunkering down until it goes boom for some reason...

Get water on the fire in addition to water cooling the directly impinged tank area for a hopeful knockdown and/or buy time for additional resources.  No one has yet suggested removing the lorry fire from the risk area by disconnecting the lorry from the trailer and move/pull/winching it away from the trailer and bullet...

[Cashybai]

I'd consider winching the lorry if our FRU was aboard, but we've no mounted winches or Tirfors on LFB PL's / P's . TBH if the lorry's that involved I'd sooner use every bod I had wetting the thing rather than taking bods away to get in close to disconnect.

[Dyson]

i like the winches, but in tis instance its water - fast

keep it simple, if the fire is out the gas containers are cooled we have no problem.

[Paul LFB]

Not so simple to remove cab from trailer. The trailer legs have to be dropped and secured, the various lines connected to the trailer have to be disconnected and the kingpin released. Also it doesnt say in the original post that its an Artic. Cooling the tank and extinguishing the cab are the priorities, beyond that wait for reinforements

[Percy]

On 17/04/2017 at 18:38, Percy said:

There was a similar question on this years Members Ops. Everybody I've spoken to afterwards ran for the hills, hid, closed half of the country off, evacuated Europe, prayed... basically (IMHO) as much over reacting as possible instead of getting some wet stuff onto orange stuff. The ingredients are there but the early information given in both scenarios is far from the catastrophic 'Hollywood' action film (I actually put that verbatim in my answer haha).

I've probably failed though haha... should have got the rosary beads out and ran.

But all joking aside LPG rapidly cools down once the heat has been removed and cooled and what better way to do that than either put the cab out and/or get a water curtain between the cab and onto the tanker and bullets?

 

I didn't fail my Members Ops they must have like "it's not Hollywood" ?