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Hope you are all well, it's been a while. 

We struggle to get vehicles to train on, I'm sure there are many with the same issue. 

If you had or have limited resources, what would your three main training practices/space creation evolutions be on the vehicles you have for RTC training. 

Eg. Roof techniques, doors, side etc.

Many thanks in advance


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Ideas for one car on its wheels:

Could start by crushing the wings and exposing shut lines for door removals, then b post removal and onto 3rd door creation. Tailgate comes off next and go for forward roof flap/roof removal and then carry out a dashboard lift on one side and a dashboard roll on the other.

Plenty of glass management / cutting & spreading to be had for people to get hands on with.

Dashbord lift and roll can also be done simultaneously with one set of cutting gear!

Just an idea mate anyway I hope that was the sort of answer you were after? I find it’s quite a good progressive drill to carry out and gets hands on with various tools and techniques that can be applied to a range of situations.

The bonus is you only need one car and one set of cutting gear.

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On 02/03/2018 at 22:31, John said:

We struggle to get vehicles to train on, I'm sure there are many with the same issue. 

Just out of interest @John, do you have to source the cars yourself or are you allowed a certain number each year. Each watch in GMFRS is allowed 4 cars a year. We have a local agreement for the delivery of these through a local scrap yard. I say scrap yard, some of the vehicles are the envy of many as they are better than some the firefighters drive. 

The vehicles have to be fully drained of all liquids prior to delivery and when we are finished, they simply call and collect it. 

In terms of training we always try and demolish as much as we can to get the most out of the training, however if I had to choose 3 methods I would choose the oyster as one, as its something thats a little difficult compared to when its on its wheels. With this in mind, I would have to choose a vehicle on its side as again, its not one that we practice enough and when it happens, can be challenging. My third option would be a roof removal as you can incorporate many other techniques as part of this. 

Hope that helps. ;)

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what would your three main training practices/space creation evolutions be on the vehicles you have for RTC training.

Overturn the vehicle to add in the challenges of stabilization and inverted workings.

  1. Trunk (boot) tunnel - without compromising critical structure
  2. Total Roof Removal
  3. Rear door removal, front door removal, "b" post removal (not overall efficient but practices the bread and butter evolutions in challenging orientations)  
  4. B-Post fold up (force rear door, force/cut front door at hinges, expose/relief cut bottom of "b" post, fold up and over) 

Occasionally, consider a more tactical/modular approach rather than scenario based.

  1. Stabilization
  2. Glass management
  3. Hand tool famil (air chisel, recip saw, etc.) without compromising critical structure
  4. Lifting bag famil (rescue dummy/pedal bike/infant car seat under)
  5. Tensioned buttress stab (vehicle on 4 wheels or side, or introduce props etc.)
  6. Trunk (boot) tunnel - without compromising critical structure        
  7. Roof Flap - (back to front, front to back, or side to side)
  8. Total Roof Removal
  9. B-Post Rip (force rear door latch, rip "b" post, force/cut front door at hinges) 
  10. Dash push/lift on same side (expose cut/crash beam, relief cuts, ram dash)
  11. B-Post fold down (force rear door, force/cut front door at hinges, expose/relief cut bottom of "b" post, fold down)   
  • 1 X Roof Flap
  • 1 X Roof Removal
  • 1 X Boot Tunnel
  • 1 X Dash Push/Lift
  • 2 X "B" Post operations
  • 4 X Door operations

= 10 evolutions...YMMV 

We run a vehicle donation program.  In essence the public donate for free (because of collision, unfeasible repairs, damage, parking, bylaw infraction, etc.).  We have a tow company that gives us a deal on getting the cars picked up off the street and other venues and moved to the training ground (we do our own prep).  We then sell/give the scrap metal from the cars to dealers to clean up.  We are fortunate to get about 15-20 vehicles donated annually which is much more than we need.    

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Hey all

Many thanks for the replies, great stuff, it was sort of on the lines of what i was looking for ;) I was more looking at it from the point of having one vehicle and you could only do three techniques, which would be the most used, sorry its difficult to explain in words, but all your responses have been very beneficial, thank you.

@Carl We currently are only allocated one car per watch per year for WDS, ideally we wanted 4 but with limited budgets etc. our RDS have to pretty much sort them selves out with local agreements from scrap yards which isn't ideal. For WDS stations the cars have to be de-poluted but as we pay very little the vehicles are only de-poluted in a basic form. To fully de-polute takes time and would not be financially viable for the scrap dealers. The RDS stations close to the training centre go there and have cars allocated.

@Jamiejet Thanks mate, I've got that app and pretty much every other app and book on the subject :) I've a ton of stuff if anyone every needs anything.

@Hmckay91 @HoldFast Excellent stuff thanks guys :) 

Take care


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Resources for RTA training is one of my biggest bugbears.

I really enjoy RTA training but because of restrictions on the amount of cars we are allocated I don’t get to do it as much as I’d like.  When we are given a car to practice on we tend to utilise it as much as we can by doing as many cutting/spreading techniques as is possible with one car.  As a watch we try to do something different with each car we get, but for me it’s just not enough.

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Luckily we don't seem to struggle with scrap cars at most of our stations...it' snot unusual for stations to have 3 or 4 in their yard at any time so you could probably do 1 every other tour if you wanted too.

We also have an agreement that we can accept cars for training on the agreemet that we sign the v5 for the scrappy, as peope are happy to donate to us, with the price of a scrap car being so low.

Have however noticed a reduction in numbers as the scrappage scheme in garages seems has been reinvigorate.

Do you guys advertise?

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@Carl. Sorry, what' s an Oyster in relation to RTC procedures???

I am saddened to hear some WDS stations only get 1 car a year to pay with.  When I was in the LFB, RTC training was pitiful, ad hoc and often based on older hands passing their knowledge down. But like Becile, we rarely had a car shortage so the sheer amount of practical training mitigated the lack of organised training programme.

With cars becoming more complex and presenting greater risks to rescuers and victims, how can a watch keep their skill sharp with one car per annum?. Just an outduty or leave could mean an individual missing out for 2 years or more!! I would doubt that policy coukd be justified in Court following a FF injury ?

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Thanks all

@Messyshaw I agree and have struggled with this for sometime, 1 car per watch is not acceptable in my opinion, and is not sufficient in any means to maintain competencies. The struggle continues mate

Cheers all


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