Dräger Escape Hoods

[BurtMacklin]

Had some input last tour that the Dräger Parat 5550 Fire escape hoods will be going on the run in LFB in the near future. One for every BA set and a mobile reserve of a hundred or so. They will attach to the sets on the lower part of the shoulder strap just above the hip. Looks like a god bit of kit.

Hilariously, although not verified, the rumour is, that when suggested that we might use them on ourselves in a dire emergency the union said absolutely not ?. I think I’d be going against that advice if it was a choice of choking to death and towing the union line or putting one on! 

Edited February 9, 2018 by Carl
Link embedded correctly

[Jet]

Why don’t they go the whole hog and invest in proper EASE sets like this? They can be used with normal facemasks or the the rescue hood. And a damn sight more useable and portable than carrying a whole set in a poxy bag that’s only just too small for its purpose 

[BurtMacklin]

Sorry I should have made it clearer, these are for us to give to Jonny and Jane public to wear on their way out of some where hot and smokey. Not for firefighters.

[Jet]

No I get that Burt, I didn’t think they were for the benefit of firefighters. Was merely pointing out that the drager EASE set can be used with them. 

Also, do you know if these will be permanently attached to BA sets similar to how the personal line and cutters are always attached? Seems a bit overkill if that’s the case. And why they’ve ordered one for every BA set plus 100 reserve is a bit perplexing. How many simultaneous rescues do LFB anticipate they will be doing in a single job? Is this just a bit of post-Grenfell nervousness? I would think a better investment would be too hoods and an EASE pack per applicance rather than over 800 hoods 

[BurtMacklin]

They come in a Velcro pouch and will be attached as standard and removed if obviously not required to preserve their condition. 

I am also led to believe that the one on every set idea is so any BA wearer can deploy it at any incident without the need to bring in a specialist bit of equipment. 

Ultimately for me, it’s just an extra bit of kit that might help someone.

[Desserts]

Is this idea following Grenfel, where allegedly FF took off their BA to give members of the public some air!!!!

[Jet]

Absolutely agree. A welcome step in the right direction for sure. Just for me the numbers don’t add up. If you have a 4 pump fire then you’ll have at least 16 of these hoods available for use. If 16 people are reported then it’s not going to be a 4 pump fire!! Just seems a bit of a waste of money to order so many. Maybe just for the two designated BA wearers on each truck. God knows the LFB need kit investment in loads of areas...

[Tiggs]

On the respiratory protection note will LFB be rolling out EDBA Sets on all Pumping appliances or more appliances in the future? 

[Cashybai]

On ‎09‎/‎02‎/‎2018 at 18:28, Desserts said:

Is this idea following Grenfel, where allegedly FF took off their BA to give members of the public some air!!!!

No alleged about it Desserts...

On ‎12‎/‎02‎/‎2018 at 20:03, Tiggs said:

On the respiratory protection note will LFB be rolling out EDBA Sets on all Pumping appliances or more appliances in the future? 

Not that I'm aware of, rumour has it longer duration SDBA, ditto for EDBA

[Highlander]

Thats quite a good bit of lateral thinking. I have the "pleasure" of traveling to some less well regulated areas of the world and carry one for highrise hotel stays. People might say its overkill, but it lives in my suitcase, has a shelf life of 10+ years and if it helps get me down 30+ flights of stairs its money well spent.

[Dan J]

On 09/02/2018 at 10:13, Jamiejet said:

Why don’t they go the whole hog and invest in proper EASE sets like this? They can be used with normal facemasks or the the rescue hood. And a damn sight more useable and portable than carrying a whole set in a poxy bag that’s only just too small for its purpose 

We tried Sabre escape sets a few years ago.. basically a standard BA mask connected by a tube to a small 10 minute cylinder that you could carry in a small carrying pouch.

The problem was that you had to explain to a casualty what to expect/what to do when it was turned on so they didn’t panic. (first breath etc) also there’s the problem if they are struggling to breath they may not overcome the first breath mechanism. Well that was the theory.  We never actually used ours and then they were withdrawn, I think because it was too complicated. 

[Jet]

With regards to the EASE sets, I was thinking more along the lines of their primary use being a replacement for the EASE bags we currently have and not having to drag an entire BA set into a job to rescue a FF. I was just pointing out that they have a secondary benefit of being compatible with the rescue hoods. I don’t think using BA face masks on casualties is particularly ideal!

[Slade1890]

Saw in the news today that LFB have rolled out escape hoods as of today

[Carl]

We looked at these and in fact a few member on here attended a seminar this week where I passed this hood around for the delegates to look at. We have not gone down this route and will not be doing. Our concerns surrounded the fact that it's a filter really, nothing more, the air passed through can still be toxic, otherwise we would all be wearing them. There is also a moral dilemma when you get to a flat with Mum, Dad and two kids, who gets the mask. I say this as the original idea was that each FF would attach one. 

I could certainly do with more info on this if we are to take it forward further?

[Messyshaw]

I note with some cynicism that these hoods have been publicly rolled out the week after LFB staff have completed giving evidence to the Grenfell Inquiry.  Coincidental timing ? or did the LFB want to avoid scrutiny as to why these weren't available on the night, or whether the technology and rationale is flawed as Carl is suggesting?

I have been dealing with requests from staff from a charity who work/live in high rise premises abroad in third world  countries where fire safety standards are near non existent or not enforced - and where there might not be any organised fire service. They have been freaked out by Grenfell and are rightly asking if it can happen in London, why can't it happen here?  Immediately following Grenfell (the same week) they demanded smoke hoods. Following a risk assessment, their requests have been refused for a variety of reasons and that refusal didn't go down too well. The news that the LFB have them on the run is bound to stir these anxieties up again.

So I too would be interested if others here have empirical or other evidence as to the effectiveness of these hoods

[BurtMacklin]

Well they’re made by dräger so I have zero doubt in my mind that they do exactly what they claim to do. the idea around them in an urban fire fighting role as opposed to an industrial role where users would be trained in their use. is not for total and complete protection from fire gases, it’s to make an extended egress survivable rather than deadly. a walking casualty is much easier to move than an unconscious one after all.

In the above scenario of “what if you need four masks” you could either get another BA crew in or if you were aware of the four casualties before hand, FSG for example, just take more masks. 

I can’t believe any professional fire fighter can seriously regard this already established item of equipment as not being suitable for the purpose of effecting rescues. In the mean time it’ll just have to be a wet towel wrapped around some poor persons head.

[Highlander]

@MessyshawThese are good quality bits of kit, and I was introduced to them in an offshore environment. But they do have their limitations, short duration, can't operate in oxygen deficient environments the same way an escape set can and require a small amount of Familiarisation.  They are standard on oil rigs(and ships) as part of a emergency grab bag and they are trained on as part of the offshore survival course (BOSIET).

Funny you mention that the charity refused. I had this same argument with my employer. They provide escape hoods in our high rise offices throughout Asia, and so do many of the  companies I visit. However as a traveller, they would not provide me with one for when i was in a hotel. I acquired my own which i now travel with and hope to never need occasion to use.

[Dyson]

Can't be used in oxygen deficient environments .... ?

[Highlander]

Its a filter that filters fire gases for a limited period, but can't generate oxygen...

[SamBuca]

Does it filter fire gases or just CO? 

As fire gases comprise of Hydrogen Chloride, Hydrogen Cyanide etc should we not be using a PARAT 7500 which uses an ABEK CO P3 filter instead of just CO?

More info on filter types here.

Edited November 19, 2018 by Carl
Quote removed as its a direct quote from the post above.

[Firestorm]

It filters fire gasses as well. I'll add the details to this later.

[Firestorm]

Information on the hoods and their first use can be found here.

The gasses filtered by the hoods are carbon monoxide, hydrogen cyanide, hydrogen chloride and acrolein.

[Adam Grant]

Smoke hoods have been about for least 10 or 15 years and mostly used on offshore rigs and what a brilliant bit of equipment. its a shame its come into the service so late.

As for the EASE sets this has always been a gimmick.

[Jet]

Something that is purpose built, lighter and easier to carry/operate in confined spaces so that a colleague may receive emergency air whilst being extricated from an entrapment is a gimmick in what way exactly?

[Carl]

On 12/10/2018 at 22:13, Carl said:

We have not gone down this route and will not be doing.

We have now gone down this route 😂 and have now purchased hoods for each BA Set and Smoke Curtains for every appliance. Amazing how things change over 9 months.