Aerial Mobilising - Incident Types

[Dot]

Dear All, 

In my quest for knowledge I wonder if you non-London people on here could tell me what your aerials get tipped out to automatically, ie: NOT on request of the IC. For instance, do they get sent to casualty drops on the initial call, are they mobilised to confirmed roof fires, that kind of thing..

Are your PDA systems able to identify building above three floors where an aerial on the first call would be prudent?

Do any Brigades have written down appliance siting policies for aerial crews in particular?

Do any Brigades have more than one aerial appliance at Station where the crew 'choose' or get told which one to take? I'm thinking of way back when HPs and TLs were in service and maybe a central station (I recall Leicster being one) has two and it is essentially switch crewed. 

And lastly, do any Brigades out there run support pumps automatically with aerials when they're turned out, and if so are they also aerial qualified personnel?

Sorry for all the questions, its obviously to feed into stuff I'm doing at work...

Gratuitous photo of usual poor pumping appliance parking attached (yours truly having a play)..

Dot

[Messyshaw]

Typical aerial operator, slagging off  the hard pressed pump drivers re their parking?

[Becile]

Dot that visit we need to jack up, some of those questions we can answer .

Pda vision system will identify aerial attendance, (if loaded correctly) plus intelligent mobilising from control should assist.

Yes we automtically run the support pump.

Not sure of an actual siting policy, advice yes.

Believe possible aerial location is being placed on mobile data following recent visits.

[Noddy]

Dot, aerials are not on any pda here mate.  They sit idle without a crew and tip out only on request.  As they are dual staffed, the guys come off a pump to ride it.  If no crew is on station then the nearest trained crew fetches it. 

[Dyson]

Our ALP's are on the PDA for high rise fires and roof fires, and requested or put on by control in other circumstances.

Yes the mobilising system "knows" which buildings should trigger the ALP, updated by constant SSRI visits (system not bomb proof)

Siting rules apply to all appliances at high rise, other than that its common sense and training.

And yes they always have a support pump designated if leaving their own ground, where their own stations pumping appliance isn't on the PDA, including over the border.

[Dot]

3 hours ago, Messyshaw said:

Typical aerial operator, slagging off  the hard pressed pump drivers re their parking?

ROFL !!!!! 

2 hours ago, Becile said:

Dot that visit we need to jack up, some of those questions we can answer .

Pda vision system will identify aerial attendance, (if loaded correctly) plus intelligent mobilising from control should assist.

Yes we automtically run the support pump.

Not sure of an actual siting policy, advice yes.

Believe possible aerial location is being placed on mobile data following recent visits.

Yes mate we must - I'm back on 14th, but got ICE not long after can we sort out for after 21st please? Ta mate...

Interested in Vision comment, i'll do some legwork on ours before that. 

I'm thinking you run a similar MDT based system identifying risks - we call it the 'Operational Risk Database'. At present we have no other facility on it regarding aerials other than in the en-route considerations part - 'consider aerial'. Of no use at all...

 

2 hours ago, Noddy said:

Dot, aerials are not on any pda here mate.  They sit idle without a crew and tip out only on request.  As they are dual staffed, the guys come off a pump to ride it.  If no crew is on station then the nearest trained crew fetches it. 

That is terrible Noddy...

52 minutes ago, Dyson said:

Our ALP's are on the PDA for high rise fires and roof fires, and requested or put on by control in other circumstances.

Yes the mobilising system "knows" which buildings should trigger the ALP, updated by constant SSRI visits (system not bomb proof)

Siting rules apply to all appliances at high rise, other than that its common sense and training.

And yes they always have a support pump designated if leaving their own ground, where their own stations pumping appliance isn't on the PDA, including over the border.

Thanks Dyson, can you be more specific with 'other circumstances'? 

Interested in last sentence - does the aerial stations pump accompany if it's going to a different ground or over the border, or just any old pump?

[Dyson]

Other circumstances being on request to incidents where it's not on the PDA. Sometimes control will add one if they think we might want it. Anything at height I suppose? although we have a dedicated line rescue team which is a different thing all together. 

Well if one goes over the border that stations pump will go. If that's not available then the next available pump. 

If it goes within the county then normally the same applies but that might change if for example another aerial stations pump is on that job, if that makes sense. Either way a support pump will be allocated, preferably from a station with an ALP. 

Hope this made sense ?

Edited August 5, 2017 by Dyson

[Dot]

Indeed it does. Early stages of trying to progress this here, seems to be reticence to do so....

[Matt]

Humberside jump crew all aerials, all go with support pump but the CARP can and does go on its own as it doesn't need a support pump although this is an aerial only now.  2 Bronto's, a HP and a CARP in service.  

Lincolnshire the 2 are jump manned but mainly crewed by retained I believe.  Don't tend to go with support pump as all pumps are capable of supplying them sufficiently now.

[Dyson]

Matt, the support pump isn't about pumping capacity, its about A) the appliance having a designated pump used for no other purpose and B) That crew where possible being from a station where familiarity is not a barrier - they know the drill.

[Keith]

3 hours ago, Matt said:

 but the CARP can and does go on its own as it doesn't need a support pump 

Just a mechanic? 

Dot, similar to West Mids for us I'm afraid apart form High Rises were "apparently" they go to all. We have 3 x Vema ALP's only one permanently crewed the others are jumped and 1 x HP which is RDS crewed. No support pump, don't even think the remainder of the jump crew will go.

Looking at the recent calls most have been made up apart form if the call was something specific like a rescue from height

[Geeooo]

Scotland (West) only run ARPs currently and these are on the PDA for buildings 3 stories and over. We have two ALPs that are crewed by RDS and are on request only - one of which is up in Oban so possibly goes out to more things but the one in Johnstone has three ARPs in fairly close proximity so it only seems to be requested for the odd special job. We have a lot of tenement buildings up here so the ARPs see a lot of running around. They are also considered the 1st pump on station with the WC riding them. Crewing levels were dropped from 6 to 5 so they are now utilised mostly as an Aerial rather than a combined machine which means PDAs have gone up by an appliance in every case where an ARP goes. 

There is information on each OI available on the VMDS that details where Aerials can be sited for each premise. 

As the ARPs are crewed to 5 they don't get a support appliance but they'll be mobilised 99% of the time with another two appliances anyway, so always bodies about.

[Dot]

13 hours ago, Matt said:

Humberside jump crew all aerials, all go with support pump but the CARP can and does go on its own as it doesn't need a support pump although this is an aerial only now.  2 Bronto's, a HP and a CARP in service.  

Lincolnshire the 2 are jump manned but mainly crewed by retained I believe.  Don't tend to go with support pump as all pumps are capable of supplying them sufficiently now.

Matt, yes in addition to Dyson's comment, my view is that it gives crew resilience (rotation) if they're in attendance for an extended period, BA resilience and scene safety. Try grabbing a crew on the fireground to help an aerial crew when there's more glamorous things to be doing!! 

4 hours ago, Geeooo said:

Scotland (West) only run ARPs currently and these are on the PDA for buildings 3 stories and over. We have two ALPs that are crewed by RDS and are on request only - one of which is up in Oban so possibly goes out to more things but the one in Johnstone has three ARPs in fairly close proximity so it only seems to be requested for the odd special job. We have a lot of tenement buildings up here so the ARPs see a lot of running around. They are also considered the 1st pump on station with the WC riding them. Crewing levels were dropped from 6 to 5 so they are now utilised mostly as an Aerial rather than a combined machine which means PDAs have gone up by an appliance in every case where an ARP goes. 

There is information on each OI available on the VMDS that details where Aerials can be sited for each premise. 

As the ARPs are crewed to 5 they don't get a support appliance but they'll be mobilised 99% of the time with another two appliances anyway, so always bodies about.

Geeooo, I can see with crewed ARPs this would bring differences in to the mix. What I am interested in here though is your OI on your VMDS. Would it be possible to show an example of this please? 

Ta, Dot

[Cashybai]

Dot, just a thought, we've already got this dedicated pump scenario in place for the IRU's (not that they get mobilised mind..), I know down in town you and the 'ho are often on the shout with your own pumps or Pl's at least, but can see the need if you venture into the wilds of Hampstead or KT......

[Geeooo]

6 hours ago, Dot said:

Geeooo, I can see with crewed ARPs this would bring differences in to the mix. What I am interested in here though is your OI on your VMDS. Would it be possible to show an example of this please? 

I'll see what I can do for you Dot ?

In the other two Areas up here TLs and ALPs are in the process of being reintroduced, so I would imagine the days of the ARP will be for the high jump in the next 3/4 years. And as ever the circle comes around again!

[Firefant]

We have 2 AP’s in our county. One north one south. They are full time crewed and go out with the pump from our station. 

They get tipped out to high rise with sleeping risk only and to roof fires. Otherwise they get requested. Our system knows the high rise building with sleeping risks. We went through a stage where the ap had to be requested at all times but after grenfell that has changed. 

Also, when we do our ssrp we designate the ap area and where the first and second pumps should sit as well as the rvp for other pumps. Obviously at a house or roof fire the oic needs to preplan for the arrival of the ap. 

[TandA]

Two on the same Station?  You are having a laugh.  We have a total of 5 ALPs (under review again and possibly / probably being reduced to 4 ).  All on WT stations with biggest risks as identified from incident data.  Nominally  jump crewed with the pump.  If we have ALPs off the run or out of county and drop below 4 (I think) then they become primary crewed appliances and potentially get moved about as well. Problem as I see it is that with the ALPs in areas with biggest risk, the pump usually goes to the job, leaving no crew for the ALP and so the next nearest has to attend and that can be some way off.

As far as I know they are only on the initial attendance for high rise jobs, anything involving working at / rescue from height and special attendances.