Jump to content

Two Yearly BA Wearers Assessment


Recommended Posts

Is there any guidance as to if a firefighter goes out of date BA wearers Assessment, the limitations placed on them. 

Basically one of my lads is out of date, Course cancelled not his fault and he can't be sorted till November. Non competent BA TL, Wearer and ECO. 

Does it state any where if he can wear as a no. 2 with a competent TL. 

This is to avoid taking him off the run and us being short. No man power to replace him. 

Ive been through our own brigade orders, CFRA OP Guidance. 


Link to comment


So, OGBA training guidance states that the reassessment must take place every 2 years by a TC BAI, with quite sprecific criteria regarding Team Leader, extinguishing fires, and rescuing casualties.

Strictly speaking, if he's out of certification then he shouldn't be wearing operationally.

However....in circumstances where this is not the fault of the Firefighter, then of course there should be an element of discretion shown by the Brigade, depending on the individual and their experience and ability to demonstrate competence in other ways, as a stop gap awaiting a TC assessment.

The thing is, assuming you are his WM? This isn't your problem or your decision to make. TC will know he is out of date, (I hope?) and its the decision of the TC Commander and or your Borough Commander as to what to do. 

Leaving him out of date for a further 4 months for me isn't great, id leave him on providing you can document assessed competence and have a BAI assessment arranged at TC asap.

Hope this helps

Link to comment

Funnily enough I'm actually his CM. but WM is asking me to look at options. SM won't make a decision, GM is holding out and training centre are also dragging heals. Politics! Thanks it does help! 

Link to comment

Why is this feeling  very close to home?  Having completed my BA verification as directed by my service this year some 3 months ago, I have recently been told that they have now reassessed the process and decided that those who were given a certain role at the BA session have not had the opportunity to demonstrate competence in BA and have been taken off the run for BA.  I have to go back and do another assessed wear next week.

Now as it happens, I agree with them that I wasn't given the chance to demonstrate competence in the role I was assigned but it is frustrating that I was assigned that role, I did as I was asked and I now have been told I am not competent.

Link to comment

The first assessment, if you were the most senior watch officer there, involved theory but no assessed wear as we were tasked with effectively running the job outside, committing emergency crews etc to make the scenario work.  The second wear on the day they had us assessing our crews so we wore but again not assessed.

Last night was just the missing assessed wear, standard domestic scenario with one casualty per team.  Three wearers last night at my session, one Stn O and two SubOs.  For my sins, I had a Bai as my number two which taught me a few things so was at least useful.

Link to comment

Well I'm sure you got something out of it. 

WC' s in many services don't need BA and FBT refreshers. 

Its sbout assesing you to do your job, do WC's get detailed to wear BA operationally? They do need to be assessed more on command and leadership I would say. 

Link to comment

It all depends on the level of the Job tbh. I've worn twice so far this year, once because of a need for wearers against a surplus of WM'S, second where I went in behind the first crews looking for spread and likely level of future crews required.


Link to comment

Well, Neil, this is an interesting one.

For me its twofold, the 1st issue being training hours and getting the best use of those hours. In any FRS the amount of time a WM gets at TC is limited. Is spending 2 days doing BAR and FBT as a wearer best use of the time? When WM's are never detailed as BA wearers at fire stations? I don't know? Those 2 days could be spent on BA incident command courses and leaning about fire behaviour and Tac Vent in a more in depth way. Case studies, table top, live burns? 

Secondly, its always been custom and practice to have Sub Officers, Station Officers, Watch Commanders wear at larger incidents, to do complex tasks (?!). Does this hold up to scrutiny? As a percentage, how many WM's you know are more competent in BA than most of the Watch? We employ FF's to do the BA work, we should have faith in them. 

West Mids I'm told have an interesting thing, where they have currently competent FBTI's on Watches, i guess WM's? they use them at complex fires, as they should be, and can be demonstrated to be, the most competent person for that job.

  • Like 1
Link to comment

Yeah, I'm a bit down that road Dys, BAi, FBTi, Moreton course director and Safety officer tickets, but I know I'm an exception rather than a rule. The funny thing is, up to this year I've nearly as many wears as most of my watch, more than some. I've total faith in all my FF's, and agree most Wm's are rusty where it comes to BA, but there are circumstances where that big picture perspective may be required inside , same for complex operations inside irrespirable (rather than fire) atmospheres which may require that extra level of C&C

  • Like 1
Link to comment

You are an exception mate, and i think the WMFS example is a gold standard for me.

The example given by TandA for me isn't good use of his training time perhaps? Although i understand what they're doing there.

No doubt WM's need to be able to wear BA, and teach it. Its just how do we refine that training so it reflects their role in the real world?

Food for thought, for me at least. 

Link to comment
56 minutes ago, Dyson said:

The example given by TandA for me isn't good use of his training time perhaps? Although i understand what they're doing there.

I was conflicted.  I have no problem with what they tried to do originally, I have no problem with the decision that as a result a whole set of WMs had not been given the opportunity to prove competence, I have no problem with having to prove my competence yearly and I enjoy training so it wasn't something I tried to avoid.  

What annoyed me was that I had to give up another evening to return to BA school to do this extra wear, at pretty short notice.  As an RDS WM, I spend a fair chunk of my time doing fire service stuff and I have to fit that around my main employment and my family life.  I do that by being organised, almost every waking hour of the week is allocated to a silo - primary work, fire service, family and just once in a while, me time!  Losing another evening from the family time pot to put right a mistake that wasn't mine in the first place was frustrating, especially mid summer holidays where light evenings can be spent with the kids.

Link to comment

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Create New...