Breathing Apparatus Start Up Procedure

[Rory-495]

Hi all,

Random question that we have banded around the mess table. In West mids we do a start up test out (air on, mask on, face fit, turn off air, crush test, air on again)

I didn't do this in LFB.

I'm curious as to whether any other FRS do this as if I have tested my set fully at the start of shift why should I do another breathe down on arrival, especially as there may well be persons trapped inside. 

Our sets are, for another month, draeger PSS7000 

[Crog]

Didn’t do it in previous service. As you say, test at start of shift and quick hold breath, move head around checking seal at a job.

Current service does what you do currently and even teaches crews to count down on fingers from 5 when cylinder is turned off, which annoys me no end when they are doing that outside a going job.

[Keith]

We've always done the test you describe as a pre entry test. Many reason to ensure you have a good seal which was always easily identified by the mask collapsing onto your face and not having any air being drawn in. Used to more of a problem with older facemasks due to sizing and overtime the materials they were made from hardening.

There is also the difference in testing frequency between wholetime and retained. With the wholetime there's more ownership of the BA set with the wearer doing the full test at the start of ever shift. For the retained the set will only be tested weekly on the drill or training night. There would never be the time to do a full test when responding to a call, so the pre entry also acts a minimum test before use. 

[TandA]

2 minutes ago, Keith said:

For the retained the set will only be tested weekly on the drill or training night. There would never be the time to do a full test when responding to a call, so the pre entry also acts a minimum test before use. 

This.  The pre-entry test is the only test of their set my firefighters are likely to get before a wear.  Sets are tested weekly on a rota where one firefighter tests all 4 sets on the machine but at best only one set will be worn by the last person to test it.

[Cass]

Pre entry test has always been done down here in SWFRS. I imagine for some of the reasons already stated above.

[Luminoki]

H&W still carry out pre tests, known as “don and start” another thing they do is that the bodyguard must be held in the left hand whilst doing the crush test ( the ratchets are on the right hand side of the cylinder ) or they did up until I left last year

[Rory-495]

I understand it for on call, however if its my set I've tested that morning and it hasn't been touched I'd much rather Don and go as quick as I cam, especially if there's persons trapped

[Keith]

How much longer does it actually take though? I can understand that you want to get stuck in quick, but if it slows things down slightly to ensure you're safe is it not worth doing it?

Looking at it another way, I'm sure many of us will have donned and went under air enroute, jumped straight off the appliance and were halfway up the hall for a persons reported before getting any instructions from the Oic. Now that would be looked at as very reckless. All incident command training will include telling the BA team to wait with the ECO for a brief from the Oic after they have done their information gathering and formulated a plan. You probably shouldn't be donning the set on route and the way things are going the BA sets wouldn't be in the cab.

[Messyshaw]

On 07/03/2024 at 22:59, Keith said:

All incident command training will include telling the BA team to wait with the ECO for a brief from the Oic after they have done their information gathering and formulated a plan. 

Is that procedure the same when there's an obvious person's reported situation in a small to moderate house?

I do hope some pragmatism is allowed in certain cases for BA wearers to use their skills and DRA processes without being spoon-fed the plan prior to entry 

 

[Vema11]

Greater Manchester we only do a pre entry check if we turn out to a fire on parade before we have had chance to do routine test. 

Once it’s been routine tested we then don’t do a pre entry. 

Also I honestly think you’d struggle to find anyone nationwide who’d do a pre entry check prior at a persons reported. 

[Rory-495]

On 07/03/2024 at 22:59, Keith said:

Looking at it another way, I'm sure many of us will have donned and went under air enroute

I'm not sure how many FRS have it. But in west mids we have 999eye. We can live stream from the caller what they can see and if they can se an obvious well developed fire it would be irresponsible in my eyes to not have crews started up a minute away from the job en route so that they can step off an make an attack in seconds. We know our patch and as a driver I can say we are x amount of minutes/seconds away and the ba team can be ready to go on arrival 

We work in a job where seconds count and if we can save a few seconds here and there when someone's life or world possessions are on the line why wouldn't we take that risk?

Surely the firefighter safety maxim still applies that we will increase the risk for an increased chance of rescue/saving of property?

[Keith]

I'm playing either devils advocate, poacher turned gamekeeper here, more so to reflect how things have changed and will continue to change. I hear all the arguments being made and trust me I would have made the same ones.

Ultimately I think we will end up with not donning until you get to the job as the BA sets will all end up in the side pocket because of the risk of contaminates and clean cab policies. Some Services are already going down this route. Bizarrely this will end up back to something I heard from some of the old hands when BA sets first came into use. They were kept in a steel box in the side pocket and only to be used at the risk of being shot!

[Jet]

If it's already been tested get the 🤬ing thing on and do your job.