Nights for Officers

[Steve]

As you can probably tell by the time I posted this... 7am on a Bank Holiday Monday... I woke up early this morning and couldn't get back to sleep.... it happens from time to time, you'll find as you get older.

Anyway, that got me thinking about getting paged in the night when I was at home. I was a senior officer for half of my career and because I lived within the LFB area, was on call from home (apart from when I chose to stay at work if I had a late evening, especially in the last few years as Borough Commander where I had my own flat).

So this is how it worked... as ADO/SM, I'd generally have to go out if I got paged overnight, multiple calls after 2003 were an ordering, for a brief time when I started in 2002 they were optional. The only time I'd not go was a RTC call when the message back indicated a person was not trapped. 

From 2010, as a DO/GM, and very shortly after a NILO, it all changed a bit. The NILO role was a bit of a pain, when I was duty NILO*, an exclusive duty, when that was my sole role. The mad hours would usually be between 11pm and 3am.... calls that LFB attended where the NILO was informed. These were persons threatening to do various things; jump/set themselves alight/set something alight etc... I'd frequently (and miserably) get paged 4-6 times between those hours. (17 was my personal record as a duty NILO in one shift). Often I'd lay in bed (quietly sobbing) with an earpiece in drifting in an out of sleep between messages.

*When I wasn't duty NILO, I would be available for all calls including when the duty NILO needed a NILO to attend a call, the duty very rarely sent themselves out as they were to maintain an overview. 

As a Command Officer; so if I was informed that a SM had gone on to a fire, (RTC's or Hazmat's not so much) then I'd get up and listen properly as I want to know the fire was being dealt with OK, lest it should get made up and I'd have to go on or to make sure I felt comfortable with what was being sent back if it remained at 4 pumps or persons reported.

As a Fire Safety Officer, I'd get orders when it became a six pumper anyway, but informed of 4's or persons reported. If it involved larger flats or commercial premises (so under the fire safety order) I'd go, but as most were in houses or smaller blocks, again. I'd get into the odd state of turning on the airwave next to the bed and putting the earpiece in and sleeping between messages until the stop came through.

I'd often do up to four 24's in a rolling week, and the day job meant that I needed to be in the office or elsewhere, toward the end, probably from early 2016, when LFB were quiet short on skilled officers (NILO & FS), I'd pick up a few OT shifts so 5 nights might be common on some weeks. I felt it important to look after my health and sleep when I could, thus I had my 'response scale'

I know there are a few on here, who have been flexi officers for lot's of years, how do you manage it if your shifts are consistently busy?

[Messyshaw]

I take my hat off to any FF that has to turn out from home overnight, and in some circumstances,  have to do some work the next day.

Turning out from a station doesn't wake the family - twice- and doesn't require the windscreen to be scraped of ice numerous times 

I did a cheeky night when I was on the Fire Investigation Team when my wife was pregnant and poorly. I borrowed a car and turned out from home. My pager went off at silly o'clock.  Despite me sleeping that night in a different bedroom and creeping out of the house (& delaying putting the blue lights on until the end of the road), she woke up

Then of course,  no cup of tea over the mess table after those traumatic shouts. Just home and sliding under the duvet with those LOUD thoughts in your mind, and no chance to talk it thru with peers. Sod that 😔

So I salute RDS and Flexi Officers for working this way. Give me a station dorm every time - despite the smell 😉

[Steve]

Messy, one lesson I learned very early on. I think it was Father's Day in either 2002 or 2003. I went to a bad RTC in 'the lanes' in Upminster on the very edge of LFB area. a car full of "Herberts" (to keep it polite) hit a father and his daughter coming the other way. The father was being given CPR, sadly he didn't survive and the poor girls was all but stripped naked while essential medical intervention was carried out on her. The driver having run off over the fields, left his passengers behind, the three of them remaining 'gawping' at the interventions. To be fair, it was a joint effort of angry police and Firefighters with some choice words, angry threats and a bit of pushing and shoving that got them away from the scene.

After the stop had gone, I returned home to my family, only two of my three daughters were around back then, they were about 8 & 4 years old and excitedly greeted me. I had to sit in the garden and take a moment to adjust back to my environment. From then on, in fact, just a while later... I think the August Bank holiday of the same summer, I responded to another RTC in the same area, this time a multi-fatal. I made sure I went back to Hornchurch Fire Station with the crews for a 'debrief' to get it all talked over before going home again. 

[Luminoki]

Funnily enough Steve i read your post just before going to bed after a night spent at a barn fire with my retained crew. Like the Flexi, an RDS returning home in the wee hours after any job can be a lonely place. After my first fatal, the WC suggested that everyone decamp to the mess for a chat and snack ( via the local petrol station ) the flexi that attended the job came back with us for a debreif where we just threw hypothetical situations arising from the Manchester bombing at him; hes now the ACO in a neighbouring brigade

When i first joined retained the station were a busy crew, the three pump PDA to the local prison saw us turn out once a day among other jobs. Then i’d have to go and do my day job. WT or RDS i think any firefighter becomes adept to sleeping whenever, wherever. It also pays dividends when you become a parent. The downside to this was the fact i spent alot of my time sleeping. But like Steves more gucci jobs, i wouldnt trade it for anything, maybe better heating in the truck for those winter jobs. Makes up for the messed up sleeping pattern and falling asleep into my sunday lunch at the prospective in laws house

I remember the lonely feeling after a couple of jobs of being the last one in the smoking area at the station, kinda not wanting to go home. All to welcome me was some crap TV and some chocolate to eat. However in a few weeks it wont be my problem any more as the sun is about to set on my retained career, tomorrow is 8 years to the day i started. After that i will be just like Messy, trudging up to my room at silly o’clock, although as my stations pre war theres more stairs than my knees would like

[Noddy]

I think I’m just used to it Steve although my new SM role isn’t a busy one operationally.  FI was either all or nothing, as a single shout meant being at the job for at least 6 hours plus whereas now, it’s far more of going in and out a lot more albeit for a lot less time.  For example, before I spent half the night at the barn with @Luminoki, I’d been turned out to an RTC but only got a couple miles down the road before I was turned back.  I finding I’m going out at silly o’clock only to be returned on route.  I’m then knackered for no reason (although I understand why I have to go).  

The difference now from my FI days is it’s very hard to not go into the office after little sleep as the day job doesn’t go away.  I’m getting better at having my rest time back and to be fair to my Brigade they push for me to take my time back.  As an FI we always had a rota day after a 24, but I now go from a 24 straight onto an 8 so don’t have a break.  I also now do 2 x 24’s a week and not 1.  

Although it’s my choice (as I volunteered for OT) I’m currently covering my 5th night in a row with 2 more to do.  I’ve had daytime off however to rest (if that’s possible with my 2 kids off school for Easter) so the balance is there, sort of.

Going home rather than a station after a shitty job isn’t ideal… I’ve done it too many times, so agree with you that going back to station with the crew for a brew first is sound advice.  I certainly do now. 
 

And @Messyshaw is spot on.  When I’m on a 24 I sleep on the guest bed downstairs in our living room so as not to disturb the family.  Me sleeping with Mrs Noddy with the work phone and pager on the bedside table lasted all of one night 😂

[Luminoki]

Thats a really bum deal Noddy, was it the same when you were an FI? Im lucky that in all my time the better half has put up with the alerter in our bedroom ( and the kids have when they crawled into our bed ) i think the trade off has been the subtle kick when it goes off as it usually wakes her before me

[TandA]

I am lucky in that for the 23 years I have been an on call ff, my Mrs has hardly batted an eyelid at the nighttime call-outs.  She does hear the alerter and will raise me on the very rare occasions I am in danger of sleeping through it, but she doesn’t seem to let it disturb her and often sleeps through me coming home again.  The kids are used to it, it having been all they have known and even the dog ignores it now in favour of staying snoring in his basket.

The nasty jobs are something I try to be aware of with my lads and give them the opportunity to stay and chat over a cup of coffee before they go home to sleep.  I guess not having a WT watch culture as such, I have always had to deal with those voices myself which has given me a few sleepless nights after difficult jobs and it is something I want to try and avoid / soften with my newer recruits.

@Luminoki Sorry to see you are calling it a day with the on call.  I thought you might be a “lifer”. 

 

[Noddy]

5 hours ago, Luminoki said:

Thats a really bum deal Noddy, was it the same when you were an FI? Im lucky that in all my time the better half has put up with the alerter in our bedroom ( and the kids have when they crawled into our bed ) i think the trade off has been the subtle kick when it goes off as it usually wakes her before me

Yes mate I’ve been sleeping downstairs when on call for 12 years.  Truth be told I don’t mind the sofa bed is well comfy! 😉

[Keith]

On 10/04/2023 at 07:07, Steve said:

I'd frequently (and miserably) get paged 4-6 times between those hours. (17 was my personal record as a duty NILO in one shift). Often I'd lay in bed (quietly sobbing) with an earpiece in drifting in an out of sleep between messages.

I'd have admitted defeat and got up and end up doing some work. Used to do this on night shifts after the usual 2 or 3 nothing calls. With the chance of any sleep gone, I'd get a brew and catch up with the FDR's back in the day, (who remembers them) or for the younger members the IRF's.

More generally, as some of the others have said, I think no matter what the duty system, your body adjusts to it and you pick up the sleep you need at some point. For me best night's sleep is the one after you've come off duty. Also as you get older, you stop doing the stupid things you would have previously done like working between the nights on the 2,2,4.

[Steve]

I like my sleep too much. Funny as kid who was always up and out, I remember playing out alone of a weekend or school holidays when all the other kids were still in bed, I changed as an adult and have always loved a proper sleep. I am not good without it, God know why I chose a career with night duties. that invited you to sleep only to be disturbed. 

Similarly, I have never been one to give up my bed. All through my FDS time, it never bothered Mrs D so I never slept elsewhere.. although may have dozed on the sofa on a busy night where I never even got to bed whilst monitoring.

Not one for early nights or excessive lay in's, my ultimate sleep time, which I am blessed to enjoy now is bed between 12-1am and up between 8-9am. 

[Percy]

With us it is very similar @Steve. Carl is very busy due to his home location being near to the motorway network and other major roads and his rota skills. Personally speaking, up to very recently there was only me on my Rota Group that lived in the Wigan Borough. The 345,000 people over 77 square miles make for very busy nights and weekends. I’m also HDIM too so get dragged all over Greater Manchester and beyond with that as well.

We brought in ‘Monitoring’ for some jobs and it is down to the individual if they want to go or not based on info if not automatically ordered. From the off though when it says ‘Building Fire - Domestic’, especially at night, that is good enough for me and it’s got to the point now where when I ring up but before I can say “can you attach me to the job please?” they answer the call to “you’re just being attached” 😂

Our Rota Groups have 13 on. The AM doesn’t move except for majors really, 2 or three GMs depending on leave who go to nearest Life Risk if nearest first but the vast majority of jobs are covered by the other 9-10 SMs and for 3 million plus residents and visitors across 500 square miles, all the road and transport network and industry we have it’s not sleepy valley. That said though, some of our colleagues have their ‘backs against the wall’ in terms of home location close to the next county and can only run out in one direction and are so far out that hardly ever get sent which causes much cheek blowing from the other SMs on those Rota Groups.

I was on Duty Weekend for Easter, 9am Friday to 9am Monday. I was all over the place due to my HDIM role with ‘ a few’ drunken dads who had used the nice weather to get the old BBQ out and either set fire to themselves, the shed and fence or there was equipment failure. Had a few rescues of various varieties people and animals that you have to go to stop Joe Public from getting in danger trying to do, other Hazmats jobs, a few fires and two bad ones where I’d literally pulled up outside the house having been stood down fork yet another HAZMAT job to scroll through my radio to book Available but heard lots of screaming. At first I thought it was a Bank Holiday weekend bbq fight due to too much alcohol. Had it not been nice weather and had my windows down I wouldn’t have heard it and quickly driven off. But the screams were ‘different’ and within a couple of seconds someone was pleading with me to help their family member who had been found hanging in the shed. Currently (although this will now likely change even if optional) and unlike my former FRS, Flexis don’t carry Trauma and Defibs, even if they want them which would have helped. The scene at the rear of the house was pandemonium, lots of distraught people many effected by alcohol too at first trying to stop me saying he was dead, it’s too late even it’s a crime scene! etc. We’d got him down and I phoned the job in and started CPR and was quickly joined by a RRV Paramedic and between us got a feint rhythm back but it was all over the place. Then literally angels from the sky appeared and within the next half hour between us, each time he arrested we got him back. The worst was the family though who had been joined by lots of friends and who it was difficult for the Police present to keep back. I was asked to go with HEMS via road to support and also take part in the debrief which I did. He was alive when I left but still very poorly. Tragic.

Not long after I got sent to ‘Rescue of Person From Height’. A young lad had lost his keys and attempted to gain entry to his flat by climbing through his bedroom wisdom and had become stuck, a ‘Carry On’ situation in my head as I was on way, soon to be released with embarrassed thankyous and some playful banter expected. The First Impression of ‘one person trapped, unconscious not breathing’ soon changed that and my pace to scene and we had a very bizarre and quite difficult rescue due to his positioning. When we got him down this time with crews with Trauma pack and Defibs joined by another RRV Paramedic we managed to get him back. Very bizarre one - he was far more poorly than first envisaged due to ultimately what was a suspension injury and had to be put in an induced coma poor lad.

Definitely not a quite few days.

[Steve]

Jesus mate, I don't envy you that hanging job.... That is why I was so pleased when I got promoted in 2004 and got rid of the 'Noddy car' and could use my own, which to all intents and purposes was just a regular car. I can think of some thankless occasions I got pulled over, none as bad as yours though.

[Carl]

14 hours ago, Percy said:

Carl is very busy due to his home location being near to the motorway network and other major roads and his rota skills.

Wouldn't change it though

[Percy]

8 hours ago, Steve said:

Jesus mate, I don't envy you that hanging job.... That is why I was so pleased when I got promoted in 2004 and got rid of the 'Noddy car' and could use my own, which to all intents and purposes was just a regular car. I can think of some thankless occasions I got pulled over, none as bad as yours though.

Thanks mate, yes it wasn’t the nicest of jobs to be thrown into - I literally didn’t have any driving time to prep.

We have our own personal cars normally with covert lighting etc. but mines not well and in the garage so I am using a liveried Brigade car for the time being. Personally speaking, getting £70 a month plus a bit of mileage for buying, fully fuelling and fully maintaining an emergency service response vehicle out of an FDS officers net salary is beyond a liberty so I don’t mind driving a Battenberg with roof bar etc. if it means free fuel and zero maintenance.

[Percy]

On 10/04/2023 at 07:07, Steve said:

I know there are a few on here, who have been flexi officers for lot's of years, how do you manage it if your shifts are consistently busy?

I’ve realised in all my previous ramble I didn’t actually answer your question 😂🤦🏻‍♂️sorry.

In terms of taking back time, it’s fair to say that once upon a time if was not only frowned upon but unofficially discouraged - ironically by those at a rank that wouldn’t see them out at night at all. 🤷🏻‍♂️

The reason for this is after a busy 72 hour Duty Weekend you were expected to also attend the Monday Morning (read all day) Meeting with those very same fresh faced seniors - being tired and wanting time back was ‘warmly’ received, similarly to how Oliver Twist asking the workhouse master for more food was 😂. It meant you weren’t committed and career progression to higher roles to continue the same culture and enforcing such clap trap would be prevented 🤷🏻‍♂️

It is a different place now to be fair, but still there’s the odd time when I’ve heard from a GM ‘oh I never take my time back before midnight’ which is their choice, but sometimes we are in and out more between 6pm and midnight than during the night and that’s after working all day too. I’ve always taken my time but I’ve never taken the p… and I don’t anyone else doing either.

I think we could all do with being more disciplined with it though, there is always something that needs doing that we put our time back off for to some degree but again to be fair to the Service now, we are not expected to record times and have the option to work flexibly which helps sometimes when you don’t want the distraction of an office at SHQ or Station and there is no scrutiny of hours taken.

It would be interesting to see if there is more scrutiny in some FRS. There’s one FRS who work 7x24s in a row which is not only baffling, unsafe and an accident waiting to happen, I’d like to see how they get time back given the next three weeks of the Rota they’re expected to be in the office all week 😳