What Operational Info Would You Expect in a PIB?

[Messyshaw]

I have just come across the `London Fire Brigade Fire Safety Guidance Note No 70 that refers to Premises Information Boxes (PIB). I have also just read the National Fire Chief's Council guidance re PIB.

LFB guidance

NFCC guidance

Both are full of advice as to providing plans of various sorts and comprehensive lists of fire safety infrastructure which is fine. The NFCC goes on to deal with residential premises, and in particular, identifying where those more vulnerable persons live who may need assistance. All very useful stuff

I thought that the PIBs were also a means to inform the fire service of risks to the operational crews attended, especially out of hours . But I cannot find any detailed information about what the fire service wants to be included in the PIB in relation to hazards to operation crews 

The Fire Safety Order -  Article 16(2) - states that:

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........the responsible person must ensure that the information required by article 15(1)(a) and paragraph (1)(a) of this article (AKA work hazards), together with information on the matters referred to in paragraph (1)(b) and (d) is—

(a)made available to relevant accident and emergency services to enable those services, whether internal or external to the premises, to prepare their own response procedures and precautionary measures; and

(b)displayed at the premises, unless the results of the risk assessment make this unnecessary.

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So its curious that no guidance is given in the official LFB and NFCC documents 

I am dealing with a school with multiple hazards from chemical, gas cylinders and ammunition to an unfenstrated microwave transmitter on the roof and a huge UPS battery pack for the IT suite. All of these will be mentioned in the PIB 

But as an operational firefighter or officer, what would you want to see in a PIB when you arrive at a job in an unoccupied premises at 3am??

[Aspire]

2 hours ago, Messyshaw said:

I am dealing with a school with multiple hazards from chemical, gas cylinders and ammunition to an unfenstrated microwave transmitter on the roof and a huge UPS battery pack for the IT suite. All of these will be mentioned in the PIB 

This sort of information will be held on the operational risk database if the premises has been visited, accessed via the MDT.

Of course, this relies on there having been a visit in the first place. In terms of PIB, I always preferred simple as there is seldom a lot of time to interrogate at 3am with it ‘going like the clappers’.

Plans, keys/codes, location of fixed installations and any big nasties would do me. Its all about balancing what we need to know quickly and then being able to get on with the job.

[Steve]

I have been doing some work around this, due to the lack of 'practical' guidance and have been providing a 'Fire Command Plan'  to some social landlord's with high rise blocks... Following a visit to and assessment of the building I draw up the written plan and a professional plan drawer comes in after me, looking at my notes to provide scale plans. Obviously, I am not going to give away my commercial property, but the booklet, which will be located in the PIB, along with A3 plans duplicated for use at ICP and Bridgehead will consist of;

1. Description of block, 2. Floor plans, 3. Flat layout in block (especially relevant in split level blocks) and those living there who may require assistance, 4. Street map with two nearest hydrants and nearest high flow hydrant, 5. Hazards, 6. Firefighting facilities and aerial access to the building including available pitches, 7. Utilities, 8. Construction of block 9. Further information such as responsible person, contacts, LALO etc.

Everything an IC should need from a small fire to a major emergency. 

[Messyshaw]

Many thanks to you both

I have to say that the LFB and NFCC guidance is a bit excessive for many lower risk premises - especially the idea that scale plans using a range of defined plan symbols. That makes it impossible for the Responsible Person to do it themselves. 

Thanks Steve for the index. I may well largely follow that model, except replace the 'high rise access' section for a 'hazards to firefighters' one as its a school 👏 

[Steve]

Go ahead mate, it is adaptable and usable across multiple premises types. Fundamentally, the NFCC/LFB ones are overthought and too complicated, likely to be thrown into a corner on a dynamic incident as they are too complicated where clarity of thought is required. My ambition and mindset when creating them wasn't to be big or clever, just to put myself back on the pavement outside a dynamic job and thinking "What do I need to know"

[Messyshaw]

Thanks Steve

You are right. Its clear that the NFCC and LFB guidance was written by committee and has sort of lost its way.

As has been said on this thread, there's no time to dig deep into a huge tome of unnecessary information 

A set of line drawings and bullet point lists seem to be more pragmatic and practical solution  

[Keith]

Sounds very much that you want a good old fashioned 1.1d card.😉