Teaching & Assessing Qualifications

[Rory-495]

Hi all,

I recently started a secondment with our training department to get my BAI/CFBT/TacVent qualifications. As part of the posting you require a level 3 teaching qualification- which is provided for me.

Well, it's opened my eyes massively. The sheer amount of work that goes into teaching and making sure we all get the same opportunities, the teaching it's matched to each firefighter when possible etc. 

It has got my wondering though. On station our daily dose of training is to be delivered on the watch, anything from BA to pumps and pumping. My worry is, there doesn't seem to be anything in place to ensure we actually get taught and not just read a pdf sometimes. Do other FRS provide any form of teaching or assessing qualifications to thei watch officers? It does seem like somewhat of an oversight on LFBs part. And while I appreciate training 1000+ officers to a command standard would be difficult, surely in light of HMI reports and Grenfell enquiries there would be a push to make sure we are being trained to a high standard to maintain competencies 

[Antonhu]

To be truthful this is one area that always amazes me in the fire service and I really don’t know how we do get away it with under any sort of scrutiny or inspection, having worked in previous sectors coaching and instructing.

One day you can be a FF and the next a CM or eventually up to WM, with very little (if any) extra training on teaching. Yet all of a sudden the person is deemed qualified to maintain standards of competence for a watch, and we wonder why there’s such variation in quality. 

I understand that as a general rule you would hope those in charge would be a perfect model of the standards expected. But this simply cannot be the case in every area, just because someone is a good BA wearer, it bears no reflection on the their ability to pass this on to others and likewise someone who’s perhaps not the strongest BA wearer (but adequate) can then be in charge of instructing it to a watch. BA is simply one example. 

[LFB92]

In regards to this, it’s going to be pretty hard to ensure 5000 firefighters in London all do their training. As professionals we are responsible for maintaining our own competency through Damop and our own training. The ones who can’t be bothered to that are a waste of a uniform

[Rory-495]

I get that, but given that every NCO and Officer in the Army (tens of thousands) have to do the same level of qualification to promote its not outside the realms to have all officers in LFB do it. Even if they used an outside company and a modular course as part of their competency.

Also, the issue isn't actually doing the training, it's the quality of the trainers that is potentially an issue

[Dyson]

I do enjoy your enthusiasm Rory, and you are right to ask the questions you do. The service I came from did require all officers to do teaching and assessing qualifications, and that’s a good thing. I don’t think it’s a big ask to add that requirement to our new officers in LFB as part of the development process. Making it a retrospective requirement might be a bridge to far. It doesn’t affect the quality of training on watch, but it does demonstrate to outsiders that the training is quality assured to some extent. 

A bigger issue, is the outsourcing of training. I’d like to see that change. 

[Dangly1]

I recently did a two day 'training the trainers' ' course which never used to be offered so they are going in the right direction and there is the tanner course as well for supervisory managers to attend which comes later. Agreed it's not as extensive as a teaching qualification but it is improving and better than nothing 

[Desserts]

Some brigades are a complete joke when it comes to training officers/managers to train and assess their watch.

The LFB state in their policies that Station managers are to ensure Watch Managers have A1 assessors  (CAVA) to maintain standards of training. BUT they will NOT provide the qualification and training for it. The LFB have even held stage 2 discipline hearings for WM over training in the station diary even though the hadn't trained said WMs or got them qualified.

Before and since I have retired I have self funded my Level 3 E&T, my CAVA (assessors) qualification and am in the process of doing my level 4 IQA. All qualification that I should have had in the brigade and qualifications Station managers and Borough Commanders should also have but don't. What a farce!

I use these qualifications now for H&S based BA and rescue training for industry on a part time basis 12-14 was a month. The qualification have more than paid for themselves. £2k well spent.

[BurtMacklin]

London does have a tradition of not providing recognised qualifications if it can possible avoid it.
 

[Desserts]

Tell me about it. On top of the qualification I mentioned above I have done, confined space entry & rescue, tunnel entry and rescue, working at height, trauma care first aid to name a few. All of these qualification I was supposedly trained for or qualified in when in the LFB. None of the training/ qualification was valid in the outside world.

Yet another retired fire officer I now work with has the same qualifications I have put myself through BUT his were all done by his brigade Northamptonshire!