Rosenbauer ALP

[Chanchan168]

Hi all,

New member on here so hi to all.

Our Service is purchasing a new alp. We’ve visited stations that have a B42 and it seems a really good appliance that fits out specs, as did the Bronto.

I know their fully built in Germany compared to both bronto and Snorkel that are outfitted in the Uk.

Has anybody who uses aB42 or 45 within their brigade had any issues with servicing or things going wrong and having to wait on parts etc, or do they have an adequate after sales back up in the Uk.

Thanks in advance

[Becile]

Depends on the part to be honest, we had a long wait when one of the outriggers got damaged (but we were just at the point of brexit so that played a part) generally no different from other specialist appliances to be honest, they generally good after sales.

P.S change the monitor to a smaller flow rate, if you've got the large one , you'll over run any supply and waste loads of water. We put a 500 - 1500 lpm variable monitor on..more than adequate.

[Chanchan168]

Thanks Becile.

It just came up in conversation regarding possible issues over parts and servicing as their based in Germany but I do believe that have a uk centre which hopefully allays any fears on that front.

We’ve seen both the Bronto Xr and the B45 but now Snorkel are back on the market so need to evaluate them too.

Thansk for the swift reply.

On 31/01/2022 at 13:51, Becile said:

P.S change the monitor to a smaller flow rate, if you've got the large one , you'll over run any supply and waste loads of water. We put a 500 - 1500 lpm variable monitor on..more than adequate.

Thanks for the tip. Our current one could never max out either as couldn’t get enough flow from supply anyway. 

[Becile]

We love our 42 

[Messyshaw]

5 hours ago, Becile said:

, we had a long wait when one of the outriggers got damaged

We had a long wait for outriggers with a Metz TL many years ago. Partly as the spares came from Germany and partly over confusion with our offside being their nearside in Germany 🤣

[Becile]

Messy...same issue...😁 some things never change.

Our original Rosenbauer appliances nearly came with the rtc gear on the nearside locker for safety when fend off..only problem -  it was our offiside - soon sorted though, literally lost in translation.

[Dyson]

Reading this, I’ve only just realised that as some point in time, we went from the RTA locker being O/S front to N/S front. 

[Chanchan168]

On 31/01/2022 at 13:57, Becile said:

We love our 42 

Since the initial issue with outriggers, would you say that you’ve had little issues other than what you would normally expect? 

In line with let’s say a uk based company? 

[Becile]

They are very complex machines now...I wouldn’t say there have been any more than usual, having been involved in projects to bring new fleet into the service, your practically buying off the shelf now, rather than specifying it yourself - that’s where problems usually occur.

they do make good machines.

[Chanchan168]

Thanks. We’ve had Bronto for 30 years and although only had small issues, they’ve always been rectified quick so in processing tender returns, we need to evaluate if changing suppliers would change that. Especially if we haven’t used them before.

I agree that even if the shelf, there’s a ton of things to consider, even before options. 
 

thanks again 

Edited January 31, 2022 by Keith
Quote of post directly above removed

[Matt]

There are just shy of 200 aerials in the UK at the moment.

28 of them are Metz, 15 are B32, 2 B42, 2 L27 and 8 L32.  Put that into comparison of 79 Bronto, 49 Magirus, 2 Multistar, 27 Vema and 12 Simon.  105 are ALP's, 31 CARP's, 12 HP's and 49 TL's.

Rosenbauer do have a UK base like all the big player but are all built overseas and shipped in.  Metz are very NW, Dorset & Scottish based where as Bronto there is full coverage in the UK so there are mechanics from Angloco say for Bronto the width of the UK.

Question is what are you running at the moment, my view would not to be to mix aerials, keep them the same from a training point of view. 

[Chanchan168]

Thanks Matt. I appreciate your detailed response. We have run Bronto for 30 years, which is the same time as Angloco have been operating them I believe.

never had an issue with them and their response to any issues has been brilliant. Just have to do due diligence that’s all and scope all suppliers, including Snorkel that are back in the fold.

both Rosenbauer and Bronto are pretty much like for like by way of specs so it’s purely down to service, back up, training and options to decide between the two in comparison to Snorkel, who we have very little information on. 

[Becile]

I can only comment from our Rosenbauer exeperience both in arials and now AT appliances...I like them ,  I know they are not everyones cup of tea  (we don't like change do we...lol)the whole fleet will be rosenbauer in time. I'd even hazard a guess we'd even go electric with them at some point. I see the newer arials can crab sideways as well..neat.

[Keith]

Snorkel does seem to be a strange one. First thoughts take you back to the old Simon Snorkel HP's from the 1970/80's that survived a lot longer as the booms were often re-chassised on to newer trucks. I wouldn't be surprised if there are still some on the run. A Google search though brings up a lot of Corgi models and old appliance photos, so probably safe to say it isn't them.

Searching for Snorkel on its own though brings up this access platform firm. There's no mention of any current fire related products, but the company was original founded in the USA as fire equipment company. Is there any connection?

[Matt]

Metz ladders have been around for years as TL's and Angloco used to build them too, they were around pre war and only stopped due to them been German.

Angloco built the first Bronto for Kent in 1987 and have built about 150 since then for the UK and many others going overseas.

One thing I am sure Rosenbauer have but I know Angloco is remote diagnostics type thing to assist with issues, many pumps have it I know from Emergency One but not something Rosenbauer expanded on when I visited their site.  Could be a help. 

I know a Brigade was going to go and get Rosenabauer already having 2 or 3 Brontos because it was cheaper but by the time they had trained and converted it would have cost them more.  Same ladders means you can deploy staff to different stations with that skill rather than having a few on one and a few on another.  Them are much a like but some don't see that.

On the topic of electric aerials would make a great vehicle for been electric compared to say a pump, I'm still not convinced about a pump but some are!

There are still around 10 Simon's around, GMC are the biggest user or were if all their new TL's are on the run.  Many were re bodied from the 80's vehicles they were on, I know the one that was on my door step was and that has just gone to Ireland so them booms will be knocking on 40 year old!  I've never seen many Snorkels over the pond I think they were more popular in the 80's.

You want to be speaking to @Dot when it comes to all things aerial anyway, he will put you straight on them.  

[Steve]

I was going to say before Matt mention. it. @Dot was LFB's aerial guru for 20 years and since retiring now works for Magirus. He will have a full picture of the state of play in terms of reliability, service, aftermarket care etc. He doesn't get on here too much, but I'll text him. 

[Chanchan168]

20 minutes ago, Steve said:

I was going to say before Matt mention. it. @Dot was LFB's aerial guru for 20 years and since retiring now works for Magirus. He will have a full picture of the state of play in terms of reliability, service, aftermarket care etc. He doesn't get on here too much, but I'll text him. 

Thanks Steve. Didn’t want to say but that may be a conflict of interest. Dot works for one of the suppliers that have tendered as they are now agents for Snorkel, so I didn’t really want to comment due to obvious reasons. Lol 😂😂

9 hours ago, Keith said:

Searching for Snorkel on its own though brings up this access platform firm. There's no mention of any current fire related products, but the company was original founded in the USA as fire equipment company. Is there any connection?

Translink international seem to be the uk agents for Snorkel but then the fit out and supply is via the company @dot works for. 😜

[Keith]

Looks like Translink International have bought the rights of the old Simon Snorkels. Even some of the imagines they are using are from the 80's, firefighters in yellow leggings and cork helmets.🤣

[Chanchan168]

My very point Keith 😂 makes tender scoring a challenge that’s for sure 

[Keith]

Just curious Chanchan, are EmergencyOne the fit out and supply company and on the actual booms are these brand new or re-engineered / refitted? The Translink International site gives that impression.

Putting on the anorak here, I think I've seen a lot of their images before. They look suspiciously like they've come from GB Fire who used to refit Simon Snorkels, before going under. They actually had a case study of doing one of ours in the early 2000's, which has now gone. We went Vema's first and now are fully Magirus TL's for our aerial appliances. The SF320 ALP also looks like the one London's Burning had when they moved station and lost a pump in the later series.🤣

Should have put this link in the earlier post. 

[Matt]

Translink was mentioned some time ago to me by someone as a Brigade were looking at an aerial and was told it would be something different so that makes sense now! 

You beat me to it it @Keith re GB Fire, Direct Access Platforms (DAP) website has the same picture of the Humberside HP on it sat at HQ when it was new so I wondered if there was something there too.

London's Burning ALP was a West Midlands ST300 J reg I think that was loaned.

Emergency One as far as I am aware are the same at Angloco and Rosenbauer UK, the ladders are all new and fitted overseas on the chassis and brought in, often seen the all wrapped up coming off the ferries, sometimes catch the odd one coming in via Hull.

[Chanchan168]

On 04/02/2022 at 21:46, Keith said:

Just curious Chanchan, are EmergencyOne the fit out and supply company and on the actual booms are these brand new or re-engineered / refitted? The Translink International site gives that impression.

Should have put this link in the earlier post. 

As far as i can see the chassis goes to translink in Manchester who fit the booms and then it goes to E1 for fit out. To be honest, we had a snorkel 30 years or so ago and the website for a translink does look like it’s stuck in that era!!!
 

14 hours ago, Matt said:

Emergency One as far as I am aware are the same at Angloco and Rosenbauer UK, the ladders are all new and fitted overseas on the chassis and brought in, often seen the all wrapped up coming off the ferries, sometimes catch the odd one coming in via Hull.

Your right Matt. Rosenbauer comes complete from Germany already fitted out and Bronto comes from Finland on the chassis but not fitted out. That’s done in Batley by Angloco.

from the limited information I can gather at this time regarding E1 and Translink, the chassis is ordered and delivered to Translink in Manchester who then fabricate the boom package and then it goes to E1 for fit out. 

[Chanchan168]

Our selection panel eventually went for the Rosenbauer B45. Quite a Robust evaluation process but all things being equal, it came out on top.

bit of a pm unknown as there aren’t any B45s in the UK as yet but I Believe Cork have just purchased one. Thanks for all of your comments. Greatly appreciated 

[Matt]

Only B42's at the moment, there are a number of 45m Bronto's in service obviously different ladder set.

[Chanchan168]

Hi Matt, yeh we will be the first B45 in the UK unless Cork gets theirs.

a few B42s as you say but the 45 now comes with a telescopic 2nd boom which I believe the 42 didn’t. 

My mistake the 42 did but the 36 didn’t have the 2nd telescopic boom. 45 has the new ladder set