Promotion Process

[MHaldron]

Morning All.

I have just been through the promotion process within my brigade and found it extremely complex and drawn out. I wondered if this is the same throughout the country.

Our FF to CM process is:

• IFE exams
• Apply for promotion board
• Take a 1 crew drill under assessment
• 20 minute presentation  on a piece of kit
• Interview

( if you pass this stage you get put into a pool eligible to apply for any CM roles )

Interview for role.

Is this the same elsewhere? 

[Messyshaw]

IFE for Crew Manager ????????😳😳😳

[Carl]

I know a couple of people who are going for it within our service, so I will let them explain our process. 

IFE is a must in GMFRS, in old money you needed all your Grads to go to WM and all your Members to go to SM. Its changed over the years but you still need them. 

[Becile]

IFE for crew and above in our service too.

and lvl 3 leadership course, lvl 5 for station commanders, level 7 above that.

[Dangly1]

No IFE requirement in Oxfordshire when you go for CM promotion.

Initial application form answering questions based around the services values, if successful then a presentation of your choice so could use PowerPoint or could be a talk relating to an incident you had attended of interest, followed up with taking a training session lasting up to an hour covering one of our maintenance of competence lesson plans. So no more drill by numbers standard ladder pitch!

Finishing up with a roleplay, for me this was a scenario based on a member of your watch coming in late your first day as a CM on a new watch and you have to deal with it then an interview with job specific questions e.g. You're on your way to a shout and have a biff what do you do, on a home fire safety visit you have safeguarding concerns what do you so, you're on your way to an RTC what are your considerations and  thought processes etc.

Found the whole thing to be very job specific, relevant to the role and positive rather than the usual tell us about a time you improved yourself type interview question. 

[MHaldron]

This makes a lot of sense as a process

[Mike]

In London it seems to change every year. The LFF/CM round a couple years ago had a report writing test I believe.

• The last LFF round which I went through included;
• A knowledge test, which is a multiple guess format,
• Following that an assessment day which includes a tactical decision exercise,
• A ladder drill, either the 9M or 135, standard or confined pitch. Doesn't have to by the numbers, crews can be detailed fairly informally, but there are a fair few points that you need to hit about health and safety, competence, PPE etc,
• Finally an interview. Can't really remember the questions, but the usual 'what would be something you would implement or have implemented to improve training delivery', sort of thing.

I think the SubO / StnO round had a presentation aswell, I think it was an unseen one. The SubO round has a drill also, but it is a more complicated combined pumps and ladders drill. 

[Keith]

Exams, followed by taking drills and giving a presentation. I wonder where we've heard this before, oh yes the good old FSEB qualifications.

[Noddy]

I agree Keith! I did this for my Leading Hand job in 1999. 

[Lummox]

I’m currently trying my hardest to achieve Cm

So far I have over the last 24 months

• passed 2 x Ife level 3 units (initially told I needed all 4 but that’s since not required as of halfway through)
• passed a second commanding drill assessment ( 1 x standard drill, 1 x scenario) first one was venue changed at 11th hour then competent crew swapped with trainees on a recruits course (minor issues here too).
• submitted an expression of interest 
• attended an interview with a 20min presentation and 1 hr of values based questioning.
• received my feedback
• attended a course in management at Supervisory level.

After all that I was put in a talent pool as so close to a pass (purgatory) unable to apply for permanent jobs and now subject to the whims of the service as they guinea pig (sorry pioneer) yet again a further radical change in the process.

Initially promised individual feedback and option to develop in identified weak areas, now has turned into at least 8-10 months of external nvq in my own time as well as many other stipulations the passed candidates do not need to do, no reference to individual interview feedback and no guarantees.

Oh also I’ve been doing the blimmin role for 8 months + mostly solo dealing with all manner of things, but can’t submit this as evidence to boost my interview score.

to say I’m a bit miffed is an understatement and I’m about to be submitting a grievance as there is still no official sight able process but there we go.

sucks to be me 🤣

[Harve88]

In order to be eligible to apply for LFF in London you now need to have already completed the L1 qualification (currently 4 days at Harrow & 4 days at Moreton) and then must have acted up for 21 (I think)shifts in a year, unless the opportunity hasn’t been there.

This may be slightly wrong but it’s something like that 

[HB2016]

@Lummox I recently binned my temp and pulled out of the CM process for predominantly personal reasons - however, I'm glad I did because the process is ridiculous. With absolutely no value given to the fact that you have been doing the job for x amount of time. Especially with how much you will likely have been doing during recent months.

CM's have been worked extremely hard in recent months and with so many temporary roles - There should be far more emphasis on your real world, in post performance than values led interviews (which the service is obsessed with) and pointless power point presentations.

If you work for the service, you live the values the moment you clock on to the moment you clock off.

We definitely need a process of some sort but I think it should work more like:

- Express to line manager you are interested in promotion - have a chat and if they deem you are ready

- Temporary given, during which time you complete a CM development whilst logging relevant evidence

- New line manager provides feedback and approves you for promotion

- Interview around role and expectations to confirm

- Ready for promotion and can continue temporary then take post as becomes available.

But, we could just stick with the current process, which fails the right people for the job.

[AshMitchell]

Having just passed my service promotion process, all I need is a vacancy on station (RDS). The question I have does your service have different systems for RDS and WT? Ours is the same process and involves:

• Written support by station commander
• Written evidence from yourself against the service framework.
• Attend a technical assessment
• Attend a OIC course (in house and Moreton)
• Pass command assessment
• Attend a couple of in house management courses
• Second set of written evidence (based on an improvement as you should have had a temp stint)
• Interview

Each stage is scored and the final scores are ranked. Entering the promotion process the applicant selects the station or posts they want (doesn't need to have a vacancy). When a vacancy is available those with the highest score get the job, the only time this isn't the case is when an RDS is higher than WT for a WT post. 

[JonesMrJones]

Hey! 

Just logged back into this site after a fair few years!

I have just completed the promotion process for Avon it goes like this:

Express interest, complete a PDR with manager

1. Complete Hazmat supervisory (2 days) and Incident command course (5 days)
2. We then have to pass an XVR (Computer simulation) scenario with the Incident Command Training Team. 
3. Then sit a technical paper (15 questions, answer 12 minimum 70% pass mark)
4. Then pass an NFCC leadership framework-based interview (6 questions)

If you have done 1 and 2, you are eligible to act up or for a temp role. I was lucky and got a 6-month stint temp at another station and watch before my interview and 3 months acting up on my own station.

Somewhere in there, you can also do a week-long 'supervisory management' course. A week's course on how to do the paperwork and admin as a Crew Manager on station. I did this after going through the whole process one week before starting my substantive role

If you pass the lot, you are offered a substantive role. Somehow, I have now landed a job in The Incident Command Training Team!

It took me a year to the day to go from my Incident command course to starting a substantive role.