CPD Payment

[Chinagraph1]

I'm interested to know how CPD is applied in other service areas.

For example in my brigade you gain CPD after 5 years of being competent as a firefighter. 

If your 5th year of competency date falls before the end of June you are entitled to it from the first of July. If your 5th year date (8 years in service) falls after the 1st of July you cannot get it till the next year's July, which means you in fact have to service 6 years competency to get it.

Second thing I would like to know: if you get promoted to either temporary or permanent Crew Commander position do you lose your CPD payment?  

Do you also lose CPD if you get a temporary or permanent promotion from Crew Commander to Watch Commander?

Interested to see if all bridages do the same thing. 

[Carl]

31 minutes ago, Chinagraph1 said:

my brigade

Which is ?

[Chinagraph1]

10 minutes ago, Carl said:

Which is ?

SFRS

[Carl]

Suffolk, Staffordshire, Scottish?

Please see the following post. 🤷‍♂️

 

[Chinagraph1]

Scottish FRS 

[Keith]

The 8 years in service and the qualifying date are the same for us in Northern Ireland. I'm not 100% sure but I believe this is nationally agreed with the date corresponding to when we should get a pay rise. The amount you get though will vary from brigade to brigade as it depends on the number of people eligible

For us temporary promotions don't affect CPD, but if you do get a promotion you lose it and you have to be 18 months in post to be eligible again..

[Dyson]

This whole promotion and temporary promotion thing, losing your CPD ? I mean WTAF?
Surely going on and developing into the next rank is the very definition of continuous professional development! 

[Becile]

Yep, get promoted lose cpd until competent...crazy, but if after july wait a whole another year.

[Noddy]

I agree…. It’s bizarre! 

[Keith]

The whole thing was a biproduct of the pay rise at the end of the 2002-03 strike. The previous long service increment for those with 15 years service and over was deemed discriminator so a new system to spread this money out to include more people was devised, the result CPD. 

i could never figure it out, other industries had increments due to length of service and they weren't discriminatory and we replaced a 15 year one with a 8 year one.

[Messyshaw]

@Keith My understanding is that the demographics associated with the profile of those eligible for Long Service awards would favour white male staff and there's obviously age discrimination concerns.

That was 20 years ago, so I would hope it wouldn't be the same situation now -

But that doesn't answer the 15 years to 8 years move you refer to

Its a bit of weird concept to get a pay hike due to length of service. I definitely know proper lazy, know nothing barstewards get a pay rise due to the passage of time and not for performance or competence 

[Dyson]

Yes messy, that’s the issue in my opinion. You could have a FF who’s a pain in the arse to everyone, sits on a watch, doing the bare minimum, but gets CPD every year. Then a keen, professional person who does temporary , goes for promotion, develops themselves….. CPD is lost ! 

[Becile]

@MessyshawI don't neccesarily agree with your point on long service favouring white males, everyone has the same entitlement and oppprtunity, maybe service and societal demographics plays a part.Maybe 20 years is an over expectation now adays. 20 years holds no financial benefit, so in effect that medal , certificate is just a recognition of length of service (coming to work basically)  as you  say there are some who may not deserve a good conduct medal..ive never known it with held !

Back on original topic, CPD seems to make little sense to most ! 

[Kinmel]

Good Conduct Medal - the original Guidance stated that it should not be granted to any person given a Reduction in Rank, or a higher Disiplinary Award. 

It was certainly applied until the 1990s

[Percy]

On 15/09/2021 at 21:57, Becile said:

Yep, get promoted lose cpd until competent...crazy, but if after july wait a whole another year.

How CPD is applied is down to the individual FRS - they’ve obviously tried the nonsense of removing CPD if you’ve been promoted here but then ended up with nobody going for promotion so removed that a while ago now.

[Becile]

Being reversed as we speak... after many years , not retrospective but a win for common sense and those wanting to progress

[TandA]

On 17/09/2021 at 08:07, Becile said:

I've never known it with held !

As the WM, I got asked by HR if I knew of any reason why it shouldn’t be awarded when one of my ffs qualified to receive it.  The qualification wasn’t straight forward as he was using qualifying prior service from several different places to scrape his 20 years and I am not sure whether the service were looking for a reason to decline or whether they always ask the line manager.

[Percy]

On 15/09/2021 at 12:59, Dyson said:

This whole promotion and temporary promotion thing, losing your CPD ? I mean WTAF?
Surely going on and developing into the next rank is the very definition of continuous professional development! 

I actually said this pretty much verbatim in an email just last week which I have just looked up and copied and pasted 😃

We struggle to attract people wanting to be a Crew Manager currently. The ‘ask’ isn’t attractive enough following the Bain reports ‘Rank to Role’ with a nominal pay increase and the non sensical loss of CPD (originally) for someone who is demonstrating past their substantive role that they are doing just that!