German Floods

[Carl]

It would be remiss of us not to at least post about the floods which have swept across Europe and in particular Germany over the past few days. Having attended most, if not all of the major floods in the UK, the flooding in Germany is just terrible and on a massive scale.

Among the rising toll of dead are at least 4 firefighters which again is devastating in itself, so my sympathies go out to all in Germany and surrounding centres affected, especially those who have lost loved ones. 

Taking into account the above, has the UK offered up support or sent any support at all. I did some work when Iw as working Nationally and European deployments were very difficult if not impossible to put into place due to red tape. I know one of the major issues we faced was the fact that the affected country is on its arse and anyone deploying had to be self sufficient for up to 21 days including their own food, shelter and fuel which caused logistical issues.

USAR were the best placed but don't hole all the skill sets to deal with flooding.

[Messyshaw]

The massive economies of Germany/EU 'on its arse' due to regional flooding? That's a poor excuse and very doubtful

I understand that organising the support required to enable assistance from elsewhere to be mobilised must involve huge challenges, but surely its not impossible in the medium/long term to provide respite for local services?

The amount and location of the rainfall was not predictable, but the concept of mutual aid between neighbouring countries during a huge or long lasting disaster is surely entirely foreseeable and should be planned for.

I imagine the incompatibility of kit might also be an issue, but not one that could not be overcome with forward planning 

The loss of lives and homes and the sheer suffering is so sad. Let's hope lessons learned can surpass politics and lead to better global contingency planning 

[Kinmel]

Germany has Eurpoe's largest civil disaster organisation - in place, fully trained and fully equipped with standardised equipment at their 700 stations.

They must be there, but I have not seen any of the big blue "Technisches Hilfswerk" appliances in news reports.

THW has over 80,000 volunteers and a budget of EUR 460,000,000, they deploy internationally and have a lot of flood experience - they deployed more than 24,000 personel when the Elbe flooded about 15 years ago.

It is the A.F.S. we so foolishly threw away in 1968.

[Healdav]

On 18/07/2021 at 06:00, Messyshaw said:

The amount and location of the rainfall was not predictable, but the concept of mutual aid between neighbouring countries during a huge or long lasting disaster is surely entirely foreseeable and should be planned for.

I imagine the incompatibility of kit might also be an issue, but not one that could not be overcome with forward planning 

The loss of lives and homes and the sheer suffering is so sad. Let's hope lessons learned can surpass politics and lead to better global contingency planning 

Help has been sent by Luxembourg - both on the ground and air ambulances (Luxembourg has both helicopters and air ambulances) as has France.

The problem of compatibility of kit is not a problem between these countries, but British equipment if completely different - think hose connections for a start, British male/female connectors as opposed to twist and click.

There is/was an EU attempt to make equipment completely compatible but I have no idea how far this has got. In about 2000 I happened to be on the receiving end of a phone call from Britain from the Secretary of something called, I think The European Firefighting Committee (why the man was put through to me I have no idea). They were starting to try to collect statistics on fires, types of fire, rescue and so one with a view to harmonising training and equipment. I know that something started to move on this. I had advised simply writing to the Commission, giving what they were trying to do and asking for help. There was a start made on putting together statistics - I was slightly involved at one stage and pointed out the problem with defining pumps and non-pumps and types of appliance. I then retired and so have no idea what happened thereafter.

There has been a dearth of coverage of the floods, due I think to the difficulties of getting TV crews in and out. I was due to go in that direction a few days ago, but didn't, because of the weather! Now it's impossible. I know some of the places destroyed and would never have believed it.

On 18/07/2021 at 08:07, Kinmel said:

Germany has Eurpoe's largest civil disaster organisation - in place, fully trained and fully equipped with standardised equipment at their 700 stations.

They must be there, but I have not seen any of the big blue "Technisches Hilfswerk" appliances in news reports.

THW has over 80,000 volunteers and a budget of EUR 460,000,000, they deploy internationally and have a lot of flood experience - they deployed more than 24,000 personel when the Elbe flooded about 15 years ago.

It is the A.F.S. we so foolishly threw away in 1968.

I have just heard from someone in Berchtesgaden where they are being hit by torrential rain. They said that their THW has said they are in the Eifel and can't get back for a time. They are heading home with ambulance and fire crews as well.

And getting rid of the AFS was as dumb as a government can be. It needed enormous reforms - it was still aimed at fighting the blitz, but better training could easily have been done and it cost peanuts - Plymouth, where I lived paid about £2000 per year. It could fairly easily have been converted into an emergency rescue and fire system.