Scottish 'Incident Levels' ?

[Messyshaw]

In the Scottish F&RS, it appears that instead on make pumps 4 etc, they use levels (i.e. level one incident, level 4 incident)

I assume this is similar to the US 3rd Alarm idea, but can anyone please explain the Scottish system in a little more detail please? 

Many thanks

[Dyson]

Are they referring to incident command levels? Level 1 commander under ICS is CW/WM - Level 2 is SM -Level 3 GM etc?

If not, no idea  

[Messyshaw]

I found this on a Scottish Fire website (so have answered my own question!):

Incident command is categorised from levels one to five, with five being the highest. Each category has a pre-set level of resources attending. For example, a level two incident will result in five pumping appliances attending. Each level response from Level 2 onwards, increases the attendance by an additional three pumping appliances, along with specialist resources as required. 

Seems a curiously complicated method of 'making up'!!

I was just trying to understand an incident report I have received

Thanks Dyson

[Bgjm21]

Yep it works in levels up here,

As far as I understand everything up to four pumps is still make pumps (1-4)

I think you can request individual additional appliances within that system aswell though. 

I suppose it's quite similar to the American Alarm system?

[Steve]

Yes,

It sounds very similar to the American 'Alarm' system. A decade or so ago West Yorkshire were using the 'Alarm' system, I remeber reading about a few '2nd' or '3rd' alarm jobs. From what I could gather from their system at the time a 3rd alarm was an 8pf. Looking on their website they are now back to regular make ups... but are suing the irritiating 'make pumps 6' instead of 6 pump fire... don't get me started.

[Bgjm21]

So out of curiosity does anyone see any merits or reasoning as to why a brigade would use a system like this as opposed to conventional "make ups"?

[Messyshaw]

2 hours ago, BM96 said:

So out of curiosity does anyone see any merits or reasoning as to why a brigade would use a system like this as opposed to conventional "make ups"?

Thats a good question. It does seem like change for changes sake.

[Carefree]

Because they can.  No rhyme or reason, they just can

[Bgjm21]

I don't think all of scotland used it before the merger in 2013, it was something the former strathclyde fire & rescue came up with and the scottish service expanded it nationwide. Must be some kind of logic!!

[Carefree]

You'd like to think that there was logic behind it wouldn't you, why else would they introduce it??

[Deek]

Whilst at an incident you can send an assistance message and either ask for 'Make pumps ' or declare it a 'level ... whatever number incident' e.g 'FY, assistance message this is a level 1d incident' or 'FY, assistance message make pumps 4' both are an acceptable form of assistance message.

Level 1a - One pump

Level 1b - 2 pumps

Level 1c - 3 pumps 

Level 1d - 4 pumps 

Level 2 - 6 pumps 

Level 3 - 9 pumps 

Level 4 - 12 pumps

Level 5 - 15 pumps + 

It was used by a few legacy Scottish Services, although not sure if they all used it. Certainly Fife, L+B and Strathclyde did. 

 

[Bgjm21]

I assume you can keep making up after a level 5 if need be? Out of curiosity would it be a level 6 or an individual number of pumps you'd have to request?

[Deek]

As far as I'm aware there's not a level 6 so it would just be continually made up with the normal make up, individual numbers e.g make pumps 20

[Geeooo]

You can continue to go up 'Levels' indefinitely, with each level you get an additional 3 appliances and an Officer essentially.

[Bgjm21]

Intresting. Cheers for the insight guys!