Gas Monitors

[CGNorfire]

What gas monitors do you currently carry on your appliances and Hazmat units, and what training have you had to use them ? 

Also if you know which gases they are calibrated to that would be great . 
Thanks 

[Carl]

In Greater Manchester, every appliance carries a Scott Protege Gas Detector similar to these. Im unsure on the model number, but will look on Monday. 

In terms of training, I think we were simply sent an information note with it and pretty much got on with it. We use them regularly on a lot of incidents, certainly post fire and to check properties either side of the effected property with it. 

[CaptainFlack]

Was at a job in Worsley last week boss and John P attended as HMEPO. We will shortly be getting new 5 reading multi gas detectors from Honeywell. Yellow things they are. Really good too - think it just needs to be signed of by Ops support.

Usual detection of the common 4 with the 5th being sulphur dioxide I think 😬

Top bloke, took time out to explain everything to me as I am in my development stage

[CGNorfire]

That’s awesome , it would be really interesting to understand the thought process around SO2, In Norfolk we carry a CO monitor on every appliance which is used post fire to aid in the decision making surrounding BA removal,  and the. On a number of appliances we have standard 4 gas, 02, CO, h2s and ch4 as the flammable gas, 

and then we have 5 5 gas monitors with the addition of ammonia and chlorine 

it’s worth looking into the toxic twins and the increase in toxicity of CO and hydrogen cyanide particularly for post fire exposure for firefighters

[Noddy]

Every appliance has one of these and the FI team have them as personal issue 

[CGNorfire]

Awesome cheers Noddy, what training have you been given to use them ? 

[Crog]

We’re same as Noddy. Training was us reading the info note service sent out and then us turning it on and having a play. In typical service fashion, every one went out of calibration at the same time and there was no spares, so they had to stagger the recalibration, resulting in make ups for the monitor.

[CGNorfire]

I know that feeling .... 

so I teach these monitors in industry as well as within the service it frustrates me that to use one in industry is anywhere between a days course and 3 days and the services think it’s ok to just ping them out and tell people that if it alarms it’s not safe 

Edited March 14, 2020 by Carl
Quote removed as it’s a direct quote of the post above. Please see FAQ

[Br9mp81]

4 hours ago, Noddy said:

Every appliance has one of these and the FI team have them as personal issue 

used these for years, was stunned by the difference in quotes for spare parts, now on Multirae which provided on line training, we have our own test boxes and can do a re cal ourself

[Becile]

The honeywells are on a national framework  should be no difference in costs of spares!!

Were just about to put the 5 gas on all aplliances.

Training will be video elearning and ducuments (james grove west mids frs has provided some excellent training material)

[OscarTango]

@Becile What Gas monitors are you going for? We were one of the trial stations using the Drager unit ( that was a lot more compact than the yellow ones) and we had to bump test that with a mixture of test gases every set. As far as I recall it didn't need send-away recalibarating quite so often but I could be wrong. What was the outcome of that trial?

[CGNorfire]

Nice to hear you are bump testing .... our service doesn’t think it’s necessary every set , which is wrong ,., 

What gases do you have your monitors set to ? 

[Br9mp81]

one thing that has been pointed out to me by the service company is the fire service habit of turning on ttesting them turning off all in 5 minutes, if you start them up let them run its designed to be down a sewer for hours

[CGNorfire]

Absolutely.... it’s crazy how many people arnt  aware of the limitations of Catylitic bead sensors, how they can loose there sensitivity over time or be poisoned by things such as silicon 

Edited March 15, 2020 by Carl
Quote removed as it’s a direct quote of the post above. Please see FAQ

[Becile]

15 hours ago, OscarTango said:

@Becile What Gas monitors are you going for? We were one of the trial stations using the Drager unit ( that was a lot more compact than the yellow ones) and we had to bump test that with a mixture of test gases every set. As far as I recall it didn't need send-away recalibarating quite so often but I could be wrong. What was the outcome of that trial?

Honeywell micro5, unfortunately the trial although very valuable with the drager units didnt capture enough data , and the national trials which ended up with honeywell as being on the framework saw drager and scott well down the list after all the factors had been taken into account.(much to their surprise ) Ideally you would bump test before every use , but this just isnt practical for the level of indication we require at incidents (different when analysing results such as dim ) the bump test kit and gas is expensive and dare i say it not very FF friendly to be done regularly (breakages etc )

[JonnyHolbs]

I also train these in industry on confined space courses. We place a lot of emphasis on making sure workers know to bump test them daily and to leave them on during the day, as they calculate time weighted averages for exposure to CO and H2S and switching them off resets that function.

The MSA Altair 4X is the best one I’ve used. The BWs above are okay.

[Rory-495]

Nothing carried on LFB pump or ladder. As far as I know only FRU and RRT carry gas monitoring equipment.

[Br9mp81]

Yep and the test gases can go off before thier best before date

  

[Percy]

On 14/03/2020 at 09:46, CaptainFlack said:

Was at a job in Worsley last week boss and John P attended as HMEPO. We will shortly be getting new 5 reading multi gas detectors from Honeywell. Yellow things they are. Really good too.... Usual detection of the common 4 with the 5th being sulphur dioxide I think 😬

Close but no cigar - the 5th gas is actually Hydrogen Cyanide (HCN) and it’s lethal!!!

Lots of info about the ‘Toxic Twins’ (no it’s not a WWE tag team)... CO, which we know lots about, and HCN which we didn’t really and have spent mucho time breathing in, turning over etc. much to the detriment of our longevity and pension drawing potential. It’s an industry ‘game changer’ that we are getting ahead of the curve on as I’ve an idea that HCN detection at incidents will be mandatory in the future.

Draegar Toxic Twin

Hydrogen Cyanide The Real Killer

[Br9mp81]

Must be a new sensor line up, not used honey well micro 5 for years, iiirc it was O2,CO,LEL,H2S and PID(VOC)

[Becile]

You can configure them how you want from purchase, most are now configured the same, Honeywell have most of the frs’s and most of the ambulance and hart sections, all our neighbours down south have the same...makes it a Dam  site easier When they all the same...who knows it could actually catch on, - on no hang on lfb will want to be different...only joking (awaits incoming )🤭😜🚒

[Br9mp81]

NFS only way that will happen is when its sold off to contract

[ChrisW]

On 07/06/2020 at 17:49, Becile said:

on no hang on lfb will want to be different...only joking

Yep!  LFB have invested in the mark V Olfaction 2000 for it's monitoring.  Each appliance carries at least four dual intake detectors which are personal issue and operated for the duration of the shift. They are calibrated to detect tiny amounts of hydrogen, carbon dioxide, methane, hydrogen sulphide and ammonia, quickly identifying the source and helping establish a hazard zone. They don't require any routine maintenance but do occasionally suffer from cross contamination resulting in false positives, where these are indicated a bump test will be used to reset the device.

[Becile]

See, 90% of the frs are obviously wrong

😲

[Rory-495]

LFB have finally received 4 gas Honeywell Gas Monitors on all frontline appliances. O2, CO, h2S and ch4.

Due to go on the run in june for cutting away, grass fires, carbon monoxide alarms etc. People are already moaning at the prospect of having to wear BA to stop themselves inhaling poisonous gases!