Pressure Fed Supply into Tank Fill?

[Jason]

Hi all, stumbled across this site and looked good so I joined - thanks for having me! I’m an Operational Trainer with Essex.

I’m interested in where other Services connect their pressure fed supply to their appliance? In Essex we do not use the automatic tank full for operational fire fighting and will only ever go direct into the pump via the collecting head but I’ve heard others (LFB?) always go into the automatic tank fill? 

Just curious as to what others do

Thanks

J

[HoldFast]

Generally always into the pump eye so that the pressure coming in from the supply isn’t lost and can be utilised. I also like having a full tank in reserve if possible in case the supply goes t*ts up. We were told when the newer pumps came in with the auto filler and auto cooling mechanism that we wouldn’t need to go in through the pump eye and could go straight through the tank filler. The pumps arrived with the collecting heads removed and stowed in a locker. It didn’t take long for them to end up back where they belong.

[OscarTango]

Through the eye is recommended in Kent but on our wholetime machines the collecting head prevents the pump lockers doors from closing if it is left on the eye, so it stays on the tank fill most of the time. If time permits, setting in for a water relay for example, we'll take it off and put it on the eye, but if time is tight then chances are it will go in through the tank fill first to avoid the faff.

On call appliances however have two valves just the below the eye so it can be twinned straight into it without having to move the collecting head.

In my brief spell in Surrey it was almost always through the tank fill as they all had an auto-fill device attached.

As far as I was aware LFB lack doors on their pump lockers so the collecting head is almost always on the eye and as such supply goes straight to there. That may have changed with the newer Ategos though.

[Noddy]

Tank refill for us (or it was when I was on the wagons).  If the Mains pressure is really good then The delivered pressure can be excessive.  Auto refill means the tank is nearly full all the time anyway 

[Jason]

Cheers, bit of a mixed approach. We were also originally told to use the auto tank fill but ours is configured to open at 40% tank contents so if you lost your supply you could find yourself with less than half a tank of water😬 Also any pressure advantage from the hydrant is lost, and no compound gauge to monitor output/input. 
 

We have a fixed 2 inlet collecting head (bolted to the side of the pump casing) and a removable 2 way collecting head if we require 4 inlets, we’ve taken the decision not to use the auto tank fill for operational firefighting
 

Just curious to see if there was a standard approach and a definite answer, seems not??
 

 

[Geeta77]

Flow meters can't be used going straight into the pump eye and are a much more reliable source of information regarding water supply and usage than a wobbly inaccurate gauge in my opinion. 

 

[Luminoki]

7 hours ago, Noddy said:

Tank refill for us (or it was when I was on the wagons).  If the Mains pressure is really good then The delivered pressure can be excessive.  Auto refill means the tank is nearly full all the time anyway 

A bit like Holdfast, we were taught at training centre to go into the eye of the pump, if the hydrant pressure was too much ( as it was around the 6 bar mark at Walsall ) we’d put a dump length in one delivery and dump excess water and therefore pressure through that. You’d then use this delivery to increase or decrease pressure by opening or closing it ( called Feathering when done simoultaneously with the deliveries for the fireground ) The new trucks still have the pump eye but they dont have the collecting head fitted in place, just a blank cap. Instead they have two inlets below it for the above system

[Slade1890]

LFB on the new mk3 machine has a auto fill valve that opens once the tank falls below 75%. We go from hydrant (twinned 70mm) via two inlets into tank then pump. Believe the only time we go straight to pump is when lifting from open water via hard suction. 
 

Also in the event of a failure of the auto fill it is set to remain open unlike the old machines where an emergency lever was required to be pulled which reduced the amount water flowing into the tank. With the fail open auto fill we are now only restricted in the amount of water we can get from the supply into the tank. 

[Keith]

Traditionally everything was into the eye of the pump for some of the reasons already mentioned. Modern pump design though now dictates that all the additional features such as flow rates, Cafs, foam and the electronic control systems etc all work best from a static supply, so everything is fed through the auto fill.

I also believe that some water authorities insist on a non return valve to prevent back feeding into the mains, which could contaminate the supply, which isn't guaranteed with a collector head so you have to use the tank fill.

[Noddy]

15 hours ago, Slade1890 said:

Believe the only time we go straight to pump is when lifting from open water via hard suction. 

How’s that work then? 

[Slade1890]

8 hours ago, Noddy said:

How’s that work then? 

In what sense?

[Carl]

I must admit, you have thrown me too @Noddy. I am presuming there's something lost in translation. 

@Slade1890 as far as I am aware and understand is referring to conventional pumping as per below.

[Noddy]

7 hours ago, Slade1890 said:

In what sense?

Sorry chaps ignore my stupidity. Even Im not sure what I meant 😂

[Slade1890]

Haha thought I had said something totally alien for a second. 

But yes exactly what @Carl has shown is the only time we pump water directly from the eye of the pump and not via the tank