Command Units

[Ian]

Im doing a bit of work on Command units and when they are mobilised. Could you please let me know when your CU's are mobilised and with what criteria?

[LiamG]

I'm sure one of the officers will be able to give a definitive answer but it's good revision for me to attempt to answer... so... as far as I'm aware:

On request

On 4 Pump (and above) fires

On receipt of multiple calls they'll be ordered alongside additional pumping appliances and a SM.

On receipt of a Persons Reported message

On a confirmed Level 2 Hazmat incident

On a fire survival guidance call 

As part of the PDA for firefighter emergencies. 

[Dyson]

I'm surprised you get one on all persons reported incidents? ^

Ours similar to above, with slight differences, also turned out on receipt of a message regarding switching from stage 1 to stage 2 BAEC.

[LiamG]

52 minutes ago, Dyson said:

I'm surprised you get one on all persons reported incidents? ^

You may be right.. FIT definitely get tipped out on persons maybe the CU doesn't.. but then if it's been made 4 and persons they'll be on the 4. 

[Aspire]

CU in London goes to all PR incidents and can not be turned back either.

[Ian]

I'm embarrassed to admit, our CSU goes on, wait for it, drum roll

6 pump fires and above AND can be turned back!

Absolutely nothing else!

[Aspire]

Well, we will soon be reducing from 8 to 5 CU's. This will also change ridership from a minimum of 2 WM's to possibly a minimum of Possibly FF and CM. So it remains to be seen if our mobilising policy changes to reflect.

[Cashybai]

1 hour ago, Aspire said:

Well, we will soon be reducing from 8 to 5 CU's. This will also change ridership from a minimum of 2 WM's to possibly a minimum of Possibly FF and CM. So it remains to be seen if our mobilising policy changes to reflect.

That's been binned Aspire, sense has prevailed.

[Aspire]

Oh really, I never knew.

[Messyshaw]

1 hour ago, Aspire said:

Well, we will soon be reducing from 8 to 5 CU's. This will also change ridership from a minimum of 2 WM's to possibly a minimum of Possibly FF and CM. So it remains to be seen if our mobilising policy changes to reflect.

With the Met Police not having any command units and the LAS only having two van based CUs, how can 8 LFB Command Units be justified??

(just asking for the sake of discussion - so don't hang me!!)

[Ian]

Or you could share one like Northants do!

http://www.itv.com/news/anglia/update/2016-02-23/northants-police-and-fire-to-share-new-joint-command-units/

[Steve]

17 hours ago, Messyshaw said:

With the Met Police not having any command units and the LAS only having two van based CUs, how can 8 LFB Command Units be justified??

(just asking for the sake of discussion - so don't hang me!!)

Messy,

I think the original idea came from the realisation that the four CU’s we had weren’t enough.

Before we get onto this, for the sake of those not in LFB and those who hadn’t joined, we need a history lesson. (Messy et al can skip this bit)

From the inception of the modern LFB in 1965 each of the 11 divisions had a BACV (BA Control Van) which then morphed into a DCU (Divisional Control unit) in 1979. This was a long wheelbase transit that served as a focal point as well as fulfilling basic command functions at all 4pf’s and above in the 11 divisions. Frequently as it was likely that more than one make up would be happening in a division at one time, other were drafted in. Around 1984 these were upgraded to a proper CU ‘Pod’ that was placed on the back of a Bedford CF chassis. Brigade HQ also had a large Command Unit Coach that went to bigger fires…. On the rare occasions the thing was on the run.

Upon the change to five areas in 1986 each area got a bigger CU on a Dodge Commando chassis known as an ACU (Area Command Unit) which went on all 6pf’s and above and then a Range Rover FCU (Forward Command Unit) which went first to the 4pfs or they went as a pair to a straight 6 etc.

In 1996 things were still very busy when LFB went over to three Areas (which in themselves were among the biggest Brigades in the UK) outside of the usual suspects GMC/W. Mids etc). The three ACU’s and newer FCU (which by now were incongruous conversions of the unused 4wd Mercedes LK 917 Light Rescue Unit). The other couple of area units remained on the run for a while to give cover whilst the LFB sent up its central Command Support Centre (CSC) at Lambeth with a large bespoke BCU (Brigade Command Unit) built on a Volvo Spectra coach chassis, which went on all 8pf’s and above as well as a spare CU and a CDU (Conference demountable unit) all of which could (and frequently did) double up as CU’s when the sh1t hit the fan.

So this brings us into the 2000’s although things quietened down a tad in the late 2000’s. The plan for the 8 new CU’s to replace the collection still at HQ and in the areas was well planned and budgeted in advance of their 2007 arrival.

Initially, these were a disaster. As far back as anyone could think, we had well trained experienced ‘Command staff’ who were Lfm, with a Sub O and Stn O out in the area HQ’s who did a fantastic command support job for us as Stn O’s and above on jobs.  A handful went onto the new CU’s as well as lots of new T/WM’s some dead keen others looking to retire and others using it as a stepping stone to promotion. Many were Ff’s acting up who didn’t have a clue (not their fault) so depending on watch and location it was a lottery as to what quality of CS we got as Officers. A single CU went to all 4pf’s with another sent on 6 and above (this remains the same).

So, 10 years later, they CU’s are obviously much better, some have stayed and become as good as any of the old area staff officers were, a small minority are still useless. Although ‘normal’ ridership was meant to be three it became the default in the ‘modernised’ LFB to ride two all of the time. So at a decent 4pf they were stretched, 6 and above with a lively fireground you’d be praying for the second CU to arrive. Many larger fires (12/15pf and above) will need a third for personnel numbers once you start needing marshalling areas, a space for TCG/Silver meetings etc. Fire survival calls; dedicated CU, Ops Commander in place; dedicated CU.

You can see now that 8 isn’t really enough in the current set up. They did plan (under the LFB regime up until 31^st December 2016) to reduce it to 5 with station staff riding them with a pumps crew to boost numbers on the CU, which is part of the issue. But hey, as you know, the King is dead in LFB long live the QUEEN. So that went the way of most pre-2017 ideas recently.

In short, from one who has been a Senior Officer from the area/CSC days and throughout the era of 8 CU’s. Although ‘fires are down’ as per the Tory cry….. Jobs are not down and with the increased requirement for various roles on the incident ground including all of the JESIP stuff, the actual number of make ups in LFB is consistent and trending upwards. I’m as busy now in my 8^th year as a GM as I was in the early 2000’s as an ADO. The first few years as a GM were quiet…. Can’t say that anymore.

1. Hillman Husly BACV, 2. Ford Transit BACV, 3. Ford Transit DCU, 4. Ford Brigade CU

5. Bedford CF FCU pod, 6. Range Rover FCU, 7. Dodge G13 ACU, 8. Mercedes 917 CSU.

9. Volvo Spectra BCU, 10 CUrrent Mercedes Atego CU.

[Firestorm]

Nice recap there Steve. I was getting all misty eyed and nostalgic for a moment.

A good CU crew and the support they provide are invaluable.

[Dyson]

Couple of those photos bring back some happy memories  

[Noddy]

Ian, you are not alone although I don't feel embarrassed by it.  Why send it out to all jobs regardless? 

Here, Fire Control will ask the IC if they require the CU if they receive a 'make pumps 6' call so it remains at the discretion of the said IC in that instance.  It is only sent out on a PDA if an assistance message of 'make pumps 8 (or more) is sent.

That's your lot.

I am surprised to read of other brigades sending it to Haz Mats, PR jobs etc... 

[Matt]

Lincolnshire send theirs on MP5 so far this year its been to house fire and a chemical leak, I think alot of it depends on if its on the run too if it gets sent.

Humberside again on MP5 I think, but up to the OiC if its needed, never been a useful tool but now the new one is here it does have more benefits and the CU station have tried to get the message around but many do without as they have done over the years.  Only if its a bigger job which are few and far between that it is actually used.

[Dan J]

H&W control ask the OIC at MP4 and mobilise at MP5 but like everything it can be stood down.

[Mitch]

Ours is a bit strange. We have a BA Unit sent on MP5 or Stage 2 BA jobs (IIRC), that is then used as a CSU. If a BASU is required then another is sent for that role. 

The BASU's are crewed by the RDS not dedicated staff.

Not sure about Wiltshire, I know they have a dedicated unit and it is a fancy bit of kit, but that is it. 

[Steve]

I am surprised by the lack of consistency around Command Units with other FRS in the UK. LFB have done Incident Command on our own terms, quite successfully in my opinion, for many years. Yet over the past decade or so we've been browbeaten by CFOA representatives to pick up and adopt NICS. That all seems to be a bit of a liberty with what I am reading here with the whole CU thing being very much optional.

I think I can say with some credibility I am if nothing else an experienced incident commander having been responsible for incident command from Lfm up to GM for 27 and a half years now since I pulled on my first pair of Lfm's epaulettes. I'm not saying I'm brilliant at it, but the record would state I'm not bad at it either... more through sheer exposure that any ‘Churchillian’ talent. But although I like nothing more than standing in the street being a tactical director. A safe and proper checked and balanced strategic overview of an incident that includes, tactics, safety, resourcing, business continuity can only properly and effectively be managed in a sterile space such as a CU.

At a job where I am going to take over as IC, I make it by business to get all sides of a job and ask everyone from sector commanders, Pump Operators, ECO's and Firefighters on jets for their idea of what is happening as well as my own view. But once I need to pull it all together I demand the sanctity of a CU to ensure it is all working as I need it to.

I wonder if it was always a case of the little kids ganging up to make the big kid fall into line?

(How I wish my old 'friend' Fireftrm, a low deal Fire Chief personified, was here to read this and see him blow up like a penny rocket. )

[Carl]

22 minutes ago, Steve said:

(How I wish my old 'friend' Fireftrm, a low deal Fire Chief personified, was here to read this and see him blow up like a penny rocket. )

Don't worry Steve, he will know, he has his little friends, when the relavant forum is online of course.

[Steve]

I can imagine, especially with no 'right of reply'

[Messyshaw]

Well I miss Fireftrm - I miss his wisdom and wit. But most of all I miss those gladiatorial sized epic battles he had with Steve - most of which Steve lost if my memory serves me right 

[Alan]

DFB have 3 command support type vehicles 

Mercedes Vito D/O vehicle (3-5 pumping appliances)

Ford Transit Command vehicle (over 5 pumps, incidents of short duration, single incident type where fire service only involved)

ICU  Major incidents, multi agency incidents, long duration. 

[Steve]

On 15/06/2017 at 17:04, Messyshaw said:

Well I miss Fireftrm - I miss his wisdom and wit. But most of all I miss those gladiatorial sized epic battles he had with Steve - most of which Steve lost if my memory serves me right 

True dat