Age for Driving Appliances and EFAD?

[Lumie]

Evening all,

So throughout training school, I was told that due to my age (19) I will not need to do my driving in LFB. 21 is the minimum. Then when I got to station they said the same and when I spoke to my BC he said the same thing. 

I’ve looked through policy after policy and only found something tonight that does in fact say, under 21s cannot do their driving.

However, this is based on the fact that I was not able to do my LGV practical until I was 21, but this has since been changed to 18 (according to my research). 

Does anyone know if you have to be 21 for EFAD? I’d rather do my driving over Community Safety team and need to start looking at courses and stuff sooner rather than later if so.

Im going to contact Career Development on my next day shift but this isn’t until Monday, so if anyone has any info to share in the mean time I’d appreciate it👍🏼

[Carl]

We have no restrictions on driving in respect of who does it, however you will not be expected to drive within your probation which in effect would be 2 years as a minimum, so if you joined at 18 you would be 20 anyway and by the time you had done your LGV and done your training hours you would be pretty much 21 anyway.

[Mx19]

FF9 has been removed completely, you don’t need to do driving or community safety to cover it for competency.

[Rory-495]

Don't need it for competency but the latest policy on ff9  still states you have to do driving or have a valid reason not to drive. Doesn't say what the reasons are or how this will be enforced.

I looked into the driving process to get started and found out I need to pay for my medical, theory and eyesight test before starting driving. Given limited funds I won't be rushing to get that sorted!

[Mx19]

An email went out recently stating ff9 has been removed completely including the alternatives. It has been cancelled on my pdr.

[Lumie]

@Mx19 the email says FFDs are still to work

toward their driving, but you do not need FF9 in order to be competent now.

This is due to the fact the Brigade cannot keep up with how many recruits need EFAD courses and there’s such a large backlog, therefore it’s unfair to keep them on development pay when it’s not the FFers fault they cannot go competent.

I believe there is still a contractual agreement between yourself and the brigade that you will complete your driving within 3 years of employment, or do an alternative. I’ve only heard that and not seen it written down however.

[Matt]

You will find restrictions in many places with drivers under 25 due to insurance reasons, not that you cannot but the premiums often are rather high.  Like above mentioned regarding your development then been able to do it, unless somewhere is crying out for drivers then they will save them selves £1k of putting you through it all (rough costs).  

My mate who was RDS was lucky to get his driving very early on but that was due him giving good cover and was when they were lacking crew and driver and he was just out of development.

 

[Rory-495]

Just checked the LFB email reference FF9 removal from 12/06 this year, states that as FF9 is still in the operational national rolemap we are still expected to complete driving or alternative (if eligible) within 36 months. Intentionally vague I'd say

[Mx19]

On 31/12/2019 at 19:45, Lumie said:

@Mx19 the email says FFDs are still to work

toward their driving, but you do not need FF9 in order to be competent now.

This is due to the fact the Brigade cannot keep up with how many recruits need EFAD courses and there’s such a large backlog, therefore it’s unfair to keep them on development pay when it’s not the FFers fault they cannot go competent.

I believe there is still a contractual agreement between yourself and the brigade that you will complete your driving within 3 years of employment, or do an alternative. I’ve only heard that and not seen it written down however.

Sorry mate, I misunderstood. I thought you wanted to do it quickly to become competent!

[TrainHardFightEasy]

I would get some experience in the back shouldering a BA set before worrying about driving.

[Rory-495]

Unfortunately at a lot of LFB watches the question to every recruit is "when can you drive?!?!?!"

[Lumie]

@TrainHardFightEasy that’s exactly what I want to be doing, however it’s part of the national role map and the brigade will be chasing me up soon about it - just trying to keep my options open.

[Messyshaw]

On 31/12/2019 at 15:20, Rory-495 said:

I ooked into the driving process to get started and found out I need to pay for my medical, theory and eyesight test before starting driving. Given limited funds I won't be rushing to get that sorted!

Sorry- you have to pay for eyes and medical tests to get a LGV or to get a car licence ?

[LFB92]

LFB requires you to drive but makes you pay for theory, medical etc

[TrainHardFightEasy]

I would mention this to your local FBU official. I have to pass a BA refresher every year to stay operational but I don’t have to pay to have my kit cleaned.

[Carl]

2 hours ago, LFB92 said:

LFB requires you to drive but makes you pay for theory, medical etc

That doesn't seem fair. In GMFRS, it's all covered by the service. 

[Luminoki]

All done in house in West Mids

[Rory-495]

Doesn't seem fair because it isn't. I don't know if it's a cost issue maybe with the number of firefighters needing courses?

It's a killer for me because I want to drive, my station need me to as we need lots of drivers to cover the ladder and 2 specials, but i can't justify the spend, especially as it's not tied to competency pay now

[Messyshaw]

For years the LFB struggled for volunteer drivers. Many FFs thought theres no money in it, you miss many opportunities to wear BA and get stuck in and you do more out duties - all for a HGV/LGV licence and to get the thrill of nee-nawing around the capitals streets

So to tie it to competence was a way of getting drivers as well as upping driver pay

But now theres too many and fire services cant afford them? What a cock up! This is a foreseeable expense and all costs should be undertaken by the employer.

It's the thin edge of the wedge. What next? Paying for your own 1st aid courses in your own time? Buy your own BA facemask? 

[Harve88]

You can claim the medical and eye test costs back, there’s an option on the expenses form for it 

[Carl]

Very confusing. Are many of LFB firefighters under the impression they can't claim back, or can they ? This obviously would make a difference if the cost were claimed. 

We usually apply for the licence and the associated costs of eye test and medical were all claimable and I did this regularly up until my LGV renewal were my eye test and medical was all done by our own internal Occupational Health and signed off by our own doctor. 

Just for the record, GMFRS drivers, of any vehicle, get no additional pay for doing so. 

[Out In The Past]

It must have changed in requirements because I had to have cat C eligibility on my licence and show proof I’d done the theory and hazard perception when I applied. 

[Lumie]

It did for the 2018 intake. Requirement to live in London went out the window, as did everything to do with a driving licence. As long as you were 17.5+, had a provisional and had the right to work in the UK you could apply.