RF Risks and Firefighting

[Messyshaw]

I am on my way home after a 2 x day fire risk assessment review up north. During the visit another guy was there doing a 'RF' assessment (radio frequency) as there are telephone masts on this building.

I had a chat with the assessor who gave me a brief outline of regulations that apply to protect those working near to live antennae 

One control measure is a RF detector, worn on the shoulder or belt that sounds alarms if RF (non ionizing radition) levels exceed certain levels. A bit like a dosimeter but it measures different exposure variants. 

He was telling me larger buildings have aerials and repeaters buried in walls and behind panels. Health risks are low but damage can be caused with minimal exposure

It seems to me to be a risk to operational crews who maybe in and on larger premises out of hours so unoccupied 

Have any F&RS's procedures for this risk and maybe detection apparatus? Let's not forget about the hidden aerials that are not readily obvious

Dosimeters have been standard kit for years  as has the knowledge about asbestos and cutting away. This RF risk seems to combine the two

[Lumie]

I think this is slightly relevant, albeit not answering your question Messy.

Recently we’ve had 5G antennae installed right around our tower. They aren’t live yet.

One of the contractors came into station half way through installation for a coffee and briefly mentioned that if our TV and radio start playing up, then we need to make some noise about these antennas. He said that they’re disturbingly close to the station (the NW corner of the tower is a mere 2m from the mess), as well as the fact you can touch our tower from the Sky Garden.

Do you know if there’s anything we should know about them? A common subject at breakfast at the moment is “the dangers of 5G”. The watch were talking about getting the Union involved! We mentioned it to our GC but he kind of just chuckled at us...

[Messyshaw]

Definitely get the Union involved  @Lumie

The guy I was talking to today works on hugely powerful media transmitters where he has to wear a faraday cage type boiler suit to work nearby, down to low energy microwave links that connect buildings in university complexes perhaps 300m away from.each other

In 2016 there was some new legislation- for the life of me, I can recall the name of it. There needs to be a risk assessment that provides control measures depending on many factors. A usual measure is establishing a restricted zone around the transmitter

The FBU H&S bods will know more and should be consulted as a matter of urgency if u have anxieties.  Long term exposure warms the body and does not lead to a long and healthy life

Ask for a second option mate

EDIT

Those Regs

[OscarTango]

5 hours ago, Messyshaw said:

. Health risks are low but damage can be caused with minimal exposure

It seems to me to be a risk to operational crews who maybe in and on larger premises out of hours so unoccupied

Hang on, so what is it? If the health risks are low how can damage be caused with "minimal exposure"? What is the nature of said damage? What threshold of exposure?

Like you say it is non ionizing radiation. It isn't of the energy or wavelength to break DNA bonds so we shouldn't be worried about cancer or such like.

Mechanism of injury is likely to be burns if anything surely, given that the radio to microwave wavebands are essentially just heating the water molecules in your body the same way your microwave oven (does only much less intensely)., and even then id guess that would have to be at prolonged exposure close to the source, like your guy working on the transmitters.

Not being combative, Im still trying to figure out what the nature of the hazard actually is and in what proportion. The dose make the poison after all.

[Messyshaw]

Dont confuse me with being an expert. My microwave experience is defrosting bread and warming up soup!!!

There are 2 areas that I thought of when talking to this chap:

Low level exposure for a long period say from mobile phone masts near your workplace as Lumie's example.

High level exposure for a few seconds to perhaps near to large powerful transmitters on tower blocks - where there is no adequate signage 

The expert I spoke to talked about a well known telecoms company who illegally connected temporary kit on behalf of a police authority 

The mechanics of how the body is medically damaged is something beyond my competence,  but fried brain and the resultant  cognitive impairment is something which is a reality 

It's just an area of risk I wasnt aware of and wondered if FRS management had highlighted it???

[Carl]

This has been brought up in GMFRS, however I have had no involvement in how its progressing. I know @GK. has been involved in some conversations. Hopefully me tagging him in will prompt a reply ?

[ItsNathanHere]

15 hours ago, OscarTango said:

Mechanism of injury is likely to be burns if anything surely, given that the radio to microwave wavebands are essentially just heating the water molecules in your body the same way your microwave oven (does only much less intensely)., and even then id guess that would have to be at prolonged exposure close to the source, like your guy working on the transmitters.

This is correct. The likely risk is an RF burn (link for further reading for those interested) - which essentially cooks you upon contact, but starting from the inside. Thanks to Faraday's Law of Induction, a metal tower with transmitting elements attached to it can potentially cause a similar (albeit less powerful) burn upon contact, hence workers wearing faraday suits. I've been unlucky enough to receive a 7-watt RF burn outside of work myself - I wouldn't fancy getting a belt of anything heftier than that!

[Highlander]

Along these lines is radar equipment. The RF can attack your eyes(well before anything else) if you look directly into the beam. The larger installations you would expect would be well marked/protected. But in theroy the same could apply to smaller boats  and yachts etc.

[JonesMrJones]

I was a radio operator in the Royal Signals before and I got the odd RF burn from antennas. It does feel like it's coming from the inside out of your skin. Only ever small output though. Nothing over 10/15 watt. There where warnings on antenna pots to stay back 2metres and you only got a jolt when someone was transmitting. Receiving RF didn't effect you.

It's a bit of an old wife's tale that most Radio Operators who worked with Satellite comms who had kids had girls due to the power they kicked out nuked your balls. 

[Andy252]

Hahaha awesome, ex comms op myself. Guess what. I have 2 kids both girls 😄

Tbf. It is coincidence. My best mate is 264, always on the net, has 2 boys 🤷‍♂️

[BurtMacklin]

I think I’ve been told not to stand in front of the ones that look like drums should I happen to be working around them at height but struggle to recall anything specific. I think that the general operational risk assessments we do as JO’s have it covered to be fair, if it’s powerful enough to be harmful it should be clearly indicated and in all but the most critical situations, save saveable life, you’d stay well away until it is confirmed off or inert. 

[Percy]

At one of my Stations we were having ‘4G upgrade’ work done and, just for good measure, this involved putting a mast to the  one face of the tower I said not to. The one with the window apertures on.

One of my Watch Commanders phoned me to let me know of the cock up and it was only when I went down to see what was going on did I find out it was 5G.

Worse still they were originally putting on 3 receivers on the roof which due to icnirp 

Icnirp Guidelines

would have made the roof and 4th floor unsafe to work on and the third touch and go so obviously I stopped all work there and then.

The contractors explained how dangerous RF is for our people at jobs in cages or up on roofs for rescues and were quite surprised that this install was ‘going ahead’ in the first place so I flagged this up together with the info on icnirp I was given and the wave energy strength info that was going to be emitted at my station.

As yet we await a solution but it has opened my eyes to the dangers of RF radiation for our crews and work is going on to potentially kit out some crews more likely to encounter RF energy with RF ‘Narda’ meters.

I suspect that this will be something UK wide for us shortly due to HASAW 1974 and MHASAW 1999.

Edited December 12, 2020 by Keith
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