Recording of Property Fires

[Noddy]

A quick question to all you serving folks....

Can you give me your brigades definition and the difference between a void and a derelict building 👍

[Supernova9]

Our two terms (in LFB) are disused and derelict. Difference being state of the construction - disused is a building in reasonable condition but not in use. Derelict is a building lacking windows/doors/roof etc where lack of usage means building has fallen into disrepair.

[Noddy]

Cheers mate.... so a listed building in a poor state of repair would still be recorded as a derelict fire and not a primary? (Apologies if that’s confusing but a derelict here goes back as a secondary) 

[Keith]

We would term them as unoccupied and derelict and also classify derelicts as secondary fires. The differences would be similar to what Supernova has described with an additional consideration whether the services are still available.

Back in the days of FDR's, there was always the temptation to call them all derelicts to get you out of completing the form, but that doesn't matter now with IRS. The statistics still count them as secondary's though.

[Supernova9]

21 hours ago, Noddy said:

Cheers mate.... so a listed building in a poor state of repair would still be recorded as a derelict fire and not a primary? (Apologies if that’s confusing but a derelict here goes back as a secondary) 

If the disrepair rendered it unusable then I think so. 

Isnt the difference between primary and secondary the issue of insurance loss? How can any property fire be a secondary? Hard to imagine a listed building being uninsured and not involving loss? 

[Messyshaw]

On 13/06/2019 at 22:53, Keith said:

Back in the days of FDR's, there was always the temptation to call them all derelicts to get you out of completing the form, but that doesn't matter now with IRS. The statistics still count them as secondary's though.

I never ever took any shortcuts recording fires. 

Where others would record overheated stew pans as false alarm good intents, I would whack them on a FRD1 (fire report) every time as 1) It is combustion and 2) it means £££££s and job security for all

A large hospital had a bit of a shock, as in the 12 to 18 months after I had started at the local fire station, they became aware that the amount of 'fires' they had in nurses accommodation had increased significantly. Before then most of these calls were a false alarm - electrical (alarm caused by AFA).  But it made their board sit up and take notice as they contacted us for help with fire safety messaging.

I agree with Supernova, even derelicts have value even if that is the value of the recycled materials that may be lost, or someone's lost investment. S o its curious as to why they are given the same status as a pile of rubbish

[Dyson]

Yes, my understanding is disused or derelict. Same criteria as supernova which isn't surprising as LFB is my original Brigade. A derelict is classed as a a secondary fire. 

The example you give Noddy, yeah that's interesting. Is it an abandoned building in a derelict state? Roof off etc? But its listed?

Never heard of a void building - assuming that's disused? 

[Keith]

Likewise @Messyshaw the flipside was at that time funding for Brigades was based on the number of FDR's so I would always go on down that route of completing the FDR.

For listed buildings, taking a slightly different view, for the owners, the status is often detrimental to the value. How often have has the strange phenonium of the listed building becoming a listing building occurred?

[Noddy]

Our void is your disused yes.  And my understanding of primary and secondary fires has nothing to do with financial value...  hence the confusion.  A fence is a secondary for example. 

I’m asking because our definition of a derelict also has nothing to do with value or the state of the building.  We are classing a derelict as a building that is going to be demolished or will remain undeveloped/unused...  which is proving difficult to establish.  Therefore even listed buildings are going down as secondary fires in some cases.