The LFB & ULEZ

[Messyshaw]

From April, the Ultra Low Emission Zone will be introduced in central London.. the ULEZ charge will be in addition to the Congestion Charge.

Mayor Khan has wrong footed fleet operators by bringing forward the 2025 implementation date by 6 years giving little time for vehicle replacement or alterations

In addition to senior managers cars, the LFB will have 52 vehicles subject to this tax. The Met have 800!

The Mayor has made some exceptions  by exempting certain vehicle licence fee groups such as the Military, tractors, combine harvesters , mobile cranes and fairground vehicles ( you get loads of them in central London!) but not 999 services.

The money has to come from somewhere so cuts and new ways of working have to be likely

London's emergency services struggling to comply with ulez

[HoldFast]

Out of interest can LFB employees claim anything back on the congestion charge? As I’m sure this along with ULEZ tax will hit the pockets hard of those who work in central London?

[Aspire]

Staff that work within the Congestion Charging Zone or get a stand by duty in or reasonably through it get it reimbursed. Senior Officers and response vehicles are exempt from the Congestion Charge too, however, none will be from ULEZ.

[LFB92]

Anyone know if the brigade will be paying our ULEZ charges?

[Aspire]

That is unclear, but i’d hazard a guess at suggesting not as senior officers are having to change vehicles to comply... and we HAVE to have our cars with us.

[Keith]

More lunacy. 😠 I wonder if the mayor will be paying the charge for his official vehicle or has this been replaced at the tax payers expense?

The LFB, LAS and the Met should be sending the mayor's office notice, that due to budget restrictions they will not be paying or failing that response to ULEZ area will be severely reduced.

[Becile]

Send the Mayor a counter bill everytime an appliance goes to one of “his: properties for an afa, quoting ulez surcharge.

[JonnyHolbs]

I’ve heard that the Brigade will be billed when MkII vehicles are tipped out, but not MkIIIs. Can’t vouch for the veracity of that rumour though.

Obviously within the ULEZ.

[Percy]

Crippling his own Emergency Services and putting people at risk. You couldn’t make it up.

[Messyshaw]

£100 an appliance a day for driving in the ULEZ area? 

Can you imagine how much London Bus operators will pay?!!!!

[Aspire]

2 hours ago, JonnyHolbs said:

I’ve heard that the Brigade will be billed when MkII vehicles are tipped out, but not MkIIIs. Can’t vouch for the veracity of that rumour though.

Obviously within the ULEZ.

MkIII’s are ULEZ compliant and all stations within will have them as pumps and pump ladders. That does not, however, speak for stand by machines, reserves, specials etc.

[BurtMacklin]

The brigade won’t care about private vehicles, they allowed two training centres to be built without car parking facilities. I think there’s this misguided assumption that everyone will be able to upgrade their private vehicle or to use public transport which is incorrect as loads of staff don’t even live in the brigade area or earn enough money to buy a new car. 

I’ve not seen where all these park and rides are going to be at the border of the extended zone. So let’s just assume that local authorities will absolutely tear the bottom out of on street parking. As well as local authorities being allowed to introduce schemes which tax companies for car parking spaces on private property such as the scheme in Nottingham. 

In my opinion the early application of the ULEZ to private cars is a flagrant cash grab in the face of a problem which by the very nature of cars wearing out is self limiting. Give it 5 years and the number of non compliant vehicles on the road will be tiny. But hey, the money is there to be made now not in 5 years.

[StephenKP]

Burt, its not always the brigade that reduces parking at buildings, its the Planning system where they are requiring more green transport initiatives and reducing parking in planning applications to encourage using public transport. The current planing process for any public or municiple buildings you have to provide the council with a travel plan document which includes traffic surveys, public transport appraisals, park and ride initatives, workforce assessment of where they travel in from etc. etc. Lots of parking = more traffic and so this is a priority to encourage use of public transport system by the councils. With London having one of the best transport systems in the country I am suprised they are not even harder on inner city buildings with regards to parking.

[Keith]

All over the news, that the ULEZ came into effect today. Is the mayor still charging emergency service vehicles or are they now exempt?

[Messyshaw]

As far as I know, there have been no changes. This Mayor - like the previous idiot (Boris) isn't known for his U turns.

He may be right and the health of the capital will improve as a result of this plan. But I can't help think this is an egotiscally driven legacy plan which is more about promoting his profile than reducing the amount of inhalers in the inner city classrooms

Let's hope I am wrong

[JonnyHolbs]

Paddington are using two Mk IIIs now, so both of those trucks are exempt. I guess it’s the same for Soho but I don’t see them often. Not sure what Paddington are doing about the FRU or the TL though.

They’re paying the ULEZ charge for station staff for a year (WM and above for 3 months), and are offering an interest free £9k loan to help staff get a compliant vehicle though, which is good of them.

[Desserts]

Why 3 months for WM, are they suddenly well paid?

Above WM they can have a new lease car every 3 years

[Aspire]

They are justifying it by saying they do not go on out duties... Don’t shoot the messenger here, its just what they said 🤷🏽‍♂️

[Messyshaw]

To be fair, it's not the LFBs fault as it's simply a local tax thst is being applied.

My employer will not pay the ULEZ if you drive to work, only if you are on official business. 

Outduties are official business, which the employer should shoulder any expenses , but wanting the taxpayer to foot the bill of your commute is perhaps a step too far

[Carefree]

I’ve said it around the mess table, this ULEZ thing isn’t the LFB’s fault and by offering to cover any charges for a year and offering an interest free car loan is something they didn’t have to do.

If I worked for say, the Post Office in an inner city sorting office I wouldn’t expect them to cover my ULEZ charges ( and let’s face it they probably wouldn’t anyway).

Fair play for LFB in this instance.

[Jet]

I don’t think LFB is to blame at all. Conversely they themselves are a victim to this whole farce.

I whole heartedly support measures to tackle air pollution in city centres, but punitive measures brought in that by their very nature actually only end up hurting people that are less well off (those that can’t just afford a new car out of the blue) are uncalled for. 

The Mayors office (not LFB) should have exempted all essential workers from the charge for at least a number of years. Compared to the many mini-cabs, vans, chauffeur cars etc that frequent the city, the private cars of these workers (of which only a minority will be using non compliant vehicles) is just a drop in the ocean. 

[JonnyHolbs]

@Jet absolutely. So much policy in the West has been about making token efforts towards climate change by making the working and middle classes foot the bill while major polluters (namely fossil fuel and manufacturing corporations) get away with paying minimal tax.

[Jet]

On 14/04/2019 at 21:57, Carefree said:

If I worked for say, the Post Office in an inner city sorting office I wouldn’t expect them to cover my ULEZ charges ( and let’s face it they probably wouldn’t anyway).

To be fair, working at a static location such as a sorting office isn’t the same as signing up to a service where you agree to serve anywhere in London. There are many FF’s that work in the ULEZ zone that never asked to work there in the first place and they shouldn’t be unduly punished when fellow colleagues are not liable for such charges. It should be fair across the board and FF’s should not be punished for the location they have been assigned to provide a service to the city. 

[Messyshaw]

Surely in the example given of the Post Office there is little difference that a worker in Romford would not be required to pay the ULEZ charge but the worker in Clerkenwell would, You could argue that the Post Officer worker hasn't got the option of public transport if they start at silly o'clock whereas a FF travels at times when public transport is more available 

I can't see any difference in a FF serving at their local station 300m from their front door and another serving at a station 15 miles away and being 'punished' with the extra commuting costs.

I have rarely supported this "we are a special case' nonsense when it comes to terms and conditions. Yes the job is an extraordinary one and incomparable with many others. But millions of workers - including fellow public service workers and our own staff who support front line fire service crews- are on a pittance of what firefighters earn or enjoy benefits such as the pensions scheme. 

ULEZ is a pain- and an expensive one - and will cause difficulties to many. I doubt whether it will bring anywhere near the environmental benefits that is hoped for, but its certainly got to be a case where we are all in it together. How can a FF on circa £30k+ be subsidised when a hospital porter who starts work at 5am and is on £19k isn't? Why isn't his job as important as a FF?

Just saying

[Carefree]

@Jet I am making the point that if I worked for anyone within the ULEZ zone I would not expect them to foot the charges for me to get to and from my place of work.  

Regardless of all the arguments surrounding fairness etc I am saying that the LFB deserve some credit for offering to help.

The principal of what I said re The Post Office is the same, regardless of what you may or may not have signed up to.