Bigger ALP's for LFB?

[Trevatanus]

Saw a thread on Facebook about a bendy bus being taken into Wimbledon recently to see if their new appliance would fit. Some talk of articulated turntable ladders? 

[Danny Morrad]

Yeah I saw that too. I've got class one if they need a driver 😂 

I thought it was something to do a vehicle that was 12m long possibly a command unit on a bus chassis?

If it's a unit and trailer stlye ALP or TL it would probably be like the American ones. If it is it will probably be on a Merc chassis cab like the dust carts use as they are very low to the floor and have low roof clearance.

[Matt]

Articulated TL's are not articulated in the sense of a wagon, part of the ladder comes down like a ALP does with a cage.  You can get cages to fit on the TL's now, as seen in this picture of an Avon one.

I know there had been talk of larger aerials for London double current sizes but @Dot is the man on LFB aerials.

[Jet]

Yeah I can’t see US-style tiller trucks coming to the UK anytime soon!

[Steve]

There are around 15 new TL's being ordered, the smaller ones have articulated ladders such as the Magirus M32L-AS along with two or three longer non-articulated ladders such as the Magirus M60L. The key thing is, a 55/60m ladder can now fit onto a 3 axle chassis around the same size/weight of the early model Bronto ALP's LFB used. Obviously in London there has to be a balance between the deployable height of the ladder set and the ability to get around London's streets. The 15 new 32m TL's were due anyway, they should have been ordered last year. But after Grenfell a decision was made to purchase a small number of higher reach appliances. Nothing should be drawn from my use of either Magirus or indeed the models I've used as examples, as the last I heard speaking to someone just before Xmas the constracts have not been finalised yet.

This is playing to the gallery in my opinion, as 30m/100ft aerials have worked brilliantly for us for almost a century. As everyone knows, Aerial appliances are for use on lower buildings above the reach of portable ladders, anything higher should be a protected building with internal firefighting provisions. In any case, over half of the high rise buildings in London are out of the reach of any aerial appliance, in either height or the access required for the ridiculously long chassis that carry the tallest aerials such as the Bronto HLA which can be ordered between 81m/265ft to 112m/367ft, which is still less than one third the height of our tallest building and half of many more.

In terms of articualted chassis, which are popular in the USA (as already stated known as Tiller trucks), these only have standard 100ft ladder sets on them. The articulation of the vehicle itself is to deal with tight city streets and the fact their aerials serve a different purpose and generally carry more crew and equipment. The last time I looked, there wa sliterally just one fo two aerials within the thousands in the USA with ladder sets over 100ft.

 

@Dot

[Trevatanus]

Just seen a tweet from LFB TomGeorge

We've ordered 15 new Turntable Ladders with @EOneUKLtd @MCamiva 12 x 32 metres and 3 x 64 metres, they'll be the longest ladders in the country, can't wait.

Edited February 7, 2019 by Carl
Text reduced as far too large.

[Messyshaw]

Having part timed for a crane hire firm years ago (moving jib sections and ballast weights), I will be intrigued to see the method statement/procedures for getting 64m of stick erected on the hurry up.

There's a team of people responsible for rigging and operating larger cranes, plus its all pre planned down to the last millimetre 

A 64m ALP would have no team and just the operator to supervise everything with no really planning. That's challenging for a 30m aerial, let alone one twice that size. I would be interested to hear aerial operators views on that

I share @Steves cynicism about the 64m units and suggest they are more decorational rather than operational, to appease post Grenfell fears

I know it's early days, but have the LFB decided where the big uns are going to be stationed yet?

[Matt]

They 3 64m ones are going to Old Kent Road, Dagenham and Wimbledon.

[Messyshaw]

Thats going to be a bit of a trek to any north London job - such as the North Kensington/Grenfell area!! 

[Steve]

I was encouraging them to have a look at aerial distribution again before I left.... and one of the previous 'advocates' of innovation started working on the team and 'swallowed the corporate pill' and gave me a load of half-arsed reasons why they should stay where they were. Coverage across LFB is shocking, the inner East still has no decent aerial cover.

[Firestorm]

Yeah, but what would you know eh Steve?

Organisational experience, lost.

[Steve]

Fark'em

[JonFromTheLFB]

I remain shocked that an FRU from the inner East hasn't been sent further East and an aerial bought in to replace it. East Hams FRU is the only machine close to big parts of fast(ish) moving roads like the A13, M25 and A127 coming out of town, as well as some rural (for London) roads, whereas inner East has Islington, East Ham and Bethnal Green all within spitting distance of each other. 

Inner East surely needs an aerial at somewhere like Poplar, and surely Poplar would have the space for a mega aerial too?? 

[Jet]

43 minutes ago, JonFromTheLFB said:

Inner East surely needs an aerial at somewhere like Poplar, and surely Poplar would have the space for a mega aerial too?? 

Now you’ve done it 😬

[JonFromTheLFB]

I know my audience 😂

[Steve]

On 10/02/2019 at 18:54, JonFromTheLFB said:

I remain shocked that an FRU from the inner East hasn't been sent further East and an aerial bought in to replace it. East Hams FRU is the only machine close to big parts of fast(ish) moving roads like the A13, M25 and A127 coming out of town, as well as some rural (for London) roads, whereas inner East has Islington, East Ham and Bethnal Green all within spitting distance of each other. 

Inner East surely needs an aerial at somewhere like Poplar, and surely Poplar would have the space for a mega aerial too?? 

Poplar is ideal and they know it.... the only reason they lost the aerial at Poplar was because Plaistow (nextdoor) was identified as having a suitable bay (as it was large enough with no basement). Unfortunately as Poplar has a basement, it could not support the weight of the new ALP's in 1991/2. The TL was moved to Leyton, purely because it was a large new station and only had a PL.

If you look at the pre-1992 disposition of aerials in East London, cover was pretty good at Dowgate, Kingsland, Poplar, Tottenham & Dagenham.

As for the FRU, it was criminal that Hornchurch's was removed.... I was told "Its because Millwall & Hornchurch's were the quietest". Agreed, Millwall was too close to Bethnal Green but removing Hornchurch's (that had only been there for a few years and was moved there because of the high number fo fast road RTC's out East) was wrong. However, we all know it was political, Hornchurch's crews were (to be honest) quite militant and used to bitch about the number of courses they had to undertake as well as remaining on the 9-6/6-9 shift system by almost 100% use of mutual exchange... which caused no end of upset at the big house. When I asked how much time Hornchurch's FRU actually spent 'at work' (where I suspect it was one of the busier ones) no one gave me the answer.... a real example of the figures being used to get the answer they wanted. 😡

23 hours ago, JonFromTheLFB said:

I know my audience 😂

🤣🤣

[Keith]

Going back to the appliances themselves, noticed on a tweet about them it says the 64m one include a lift. Suspect going to that height you'd certainly need one, wouldn't fancy have to climb it.😂

Have any of our LFB members seen @Dot, suspect he may know something about the appliances.

[StephenKP]

I have seen this on magirus's website which shows the lift function a bit down the page maybe something similar?

 

[Aspire]

Not similar, it is the lift, magirus are supplying the ladders.