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Shift Pattern Confusion


RicStephens

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Hi there hopefully someone can help me understand the "Lincolnshire crewing system"

I'm currently applying for Lincolnshire at the moment but the shift patterns are of slight concern to me.

Based upon this shift pattern it would appear that you would be required to "work" on average around 96 hours a week. All be it half of that on call either at home if within 5 mins of station or live-in accommodation.

It worries me how this would affect my family life with a wife and small child being away from them and also having to commit so many hours without mention of any increase in salary.

Does anyone have any experience of working within this style of shift pattern or Lincolnshire itself that could shed some light on it and how it works for you?

Much appreciated

Shift Pattern.png

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It'll still work out as 48 hours a week as on call hours do not count as working hours.

What will count as working hours are if you get a job whilst on call.

I work as a retained at a day crewing station, if the whole time are out for 4 hours in the night they can come in 4 hours later the following morning and we, as the retained, will cover that period on standby. So essentially it should always work out as a 48 hour working week over the 8 week rota.

This is of course for my station and my brigade so couldn't 100% guarantee that this is how it would work for Lincolnshire. 

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That makes sense. Thank you. What I don't understand however is in my opinion if I have to be on call away from my family in accommodation I am still at work and away from my family. Is there extra pay for this? Because based on that I would be away from home for over 96 hours at a time. 

So to compare a fire fighter on a normal 2-2-4 would be required to be at work for 48 hrs in an 8 day period but with Lincolnshire would be working 48 hrs but also be required to be on call overnight with no additional recuperation? Just can't seem to fathom that.

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The day crewing system means there will be allowances for working those on call hours. This could be an increase in pay for working Day Crewed Plus ( between 10% and 33% dependant on the service )  to having a retaining fee, hourly rate for shouts and subsidised housing if you worked standard Day Crewing. Either way you are faced with being away from your family for a good period if time and if you have concerns about that then you have to ask yourself if Lincs is the right service for you

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I’m surprised they are still advertising this given that this exact practice has recently been ruled illegal in a case bought against South Yorkshire Fire and Rescue. Day crewed stations where you live near to the station in your own home won’t be affected but the issue is around the ‘day-crewed plus’ system where you have to stay in accommodation other than your own home whilst in between shifts.

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Do you think it will be changed then? I'm still going to apply for the job and would have to put up with it (unless I get lucky and get allocated Lincoln North as I live a stone's throw from it) but it does seem a little Draconian. 

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Draconian is a very apt term. Sums up the whole fire service ‘modernisation’ agenda. 

I’m in no place to speculate, but I would say when a judge is ruling a working practice as outright illegal, it takes a lot of front to just carry on regardless, especially in the public sector.  

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  • 3 months later...

In Kent that is more or less the standard Day Crewing system: 9 hours on station and 15 on-call. Used to be in brigade housing, though now mostly sold off. It used to be a four on four off system with a red and a green watch, now it is self rostered so the dutys are planned by the station. So in practice it's "residential" crewing rather than strictly days. 

It's not quite Day Crewing Plus as staff are at their "own residence" (whatever that may be) and are free to go elsewhere provided they can respond within five minutes when on call. DCP you can't leave station and are in a cabin out the back, so basically a shift station with much longer duties. I believe E Sussex have the same system as Kent.

Surrey Wholetime is almost entirely normal 2,2,4 apart from two stations that only do weekday day cover, retained cover the rest. 

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Forgive my inexperience if I’ve got this wrong, I thought day crewing was just WT ff’s crewed a normal day shift day 8-6 then from 6-8 was crewed by RDS(non of the WT crew unless they are rds also). Day crewing plus was WT ff’s on shift 8-6 and then THEY had to provide RDS cover from 6-8 then back on normal shift from 8 and so on. Have I got that right? Cheers 

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Its very nuanced and there are different crewing systems in different brigades on top of the standard two days, two nights four off.

As explained above, "Day Crewing" can mean different things to different brigades and can be misleading. In Surrey we have "variable crewing", which is weekdays 0700 to 1900, the retained do the remaining hours. In Kent Day Crewing the WT crew the appliance 24 hours a day just nine on station and 15 on-call, in addition to a retained section as well. West Mids have a different system again where crew do four 12 hour days 1000 to 2200 and four days off.

All these different systems however will be in addition to the basic 2,2,4 shifts that most wholetime stations do.

Day Crewing Plus is a specific type of duty system that was brought in by some brigades that ahs questionable legality. Rather than being "on call" at night times you are still on station, just standing down on purpose built accommodation on site and families can usually come and visit. It usually attracts extra pay between 10 and 33 percent (even though you are "at work" essentially more than 33 percent of the time compared to 224!)
 

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28 minutes ago, Lee88 said:

I thought day crewing was just WT ff’s crewed a normal day shift day 8-6 then from 6-8 was crewed by RDS(non of the WT crew unless they are rds also)

No not the case. Day crewing FF's are essentially on duty for a straight 96hrs (bar any serious protracted incidents). They only 'work' as so to speak during the day where they do their visits, admin and training etc. At night they are still on call and must be able to respond in the same manner as retained FF's. Some day crewed stations will employ retained FF's to man a second pump.

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Day crewing generally attracts an extra 5% salary & you get paid hourly for any shouts whilst on call after a day shift. Some brigades also pay a housing allowance up to £400 a month so it’s not uncommon for a day crewing firefighter to be on £40k a year. 

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Being Pedantic, it’s 2 days followed by 2 nights followed by 3 days off, not 4 😬

ive never counted the day I come off nights as a day off having worked 8 hours of it.  Anyway, back to the topic... 

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4 hours ago, Noddy said:

Being Pedantic, it’s 2 days followed by 2 nights followed by 3 days off, not 4 😬

ive never counted the day I come off nights as a day off having worked 8 hours of it.  Anyway, back to the topic... 

@Noddy. I challenged this 4 days off claim when the LFB used it on recruitment advertising. I complained to the ASA - Advertising Standards Authority - whose legal team investigated and failed to uphold my complaint. Their rationale was there are 4 periods of 24hrs between tours, aka 4 x days.

It stinks but that's legal opinion.of the ASA

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