Lightweight PPE

[Cardiff_Fire]

My Brigade is in the process of rolling out Lightweight PPE. To be worn to RTCs,  small fires in the open, grass fires and most SSCs.

Will still need our normal kit for structure fires and to AFAs.

Has any other Brigade gone this way? Obviously anything to make life more comfortable is a win but swapping over firekit into 1 pair of boots for different call types seems a bit of a faff, how is everyone else getting on?

Rumour mill is also talking of new lightweight helmets for RTC etc.

[JT97]

I've not heard of this. 

However in my opinion if it was going to happen, surely its easier to just get lightweight jackets but stick with wearing the same boots and trousers? 

Seems like swapping over boots into different trousers for certain calls would get frustrating after a while. 

[Jet]

Greater Manchester introduced a layered PPE sometime ago. They wear the same leggings to every incident but have a hi-vis jacket and a firefighting tunic that goes over the hi-vis. They only wear the fire tunic if they are being committed into a compartment fire I believe, so even on most fire calls they will still only wear their hi-vis but think you can opt to wear your tunic as well. 

To be honest and if it was up to me I probably would have just gone with two separate tunics, one for structural/vehicle fire calls and the hi-vis for everything else, but of course that would probably have upset the budget gods!

[Messyshaw]

This approach sounds like the Kent 2-stage PPE from 20ish years ago 

FFS wore paramilitary type boiler suits with high laced walking boots around the station and to minor spec services, and donned a one piece romper suit firefighting rig (aka the boil in the bag kit) for fire calls.

The concept meant you couldn't remove tunics so overheating was a huge issue. 

I reckon its a great idea.

I got a rollocking once when I told my crew not to rig en route to a child with leg trapped in a baby stroller. The last thing the toddler or his mum wanted was 5 fully rigged FFS freaking the kiddy out. There are. a number of shouts where full PPE is OTT

Cardiff Fire - have you got any links or photos????

 

[Matt]

Hampshire did some trails last year around a layered kit, not sure what the outcome of it was though.  The only ones I am aware of using the layered approach at the moment is GMC.

[Cardiff_Fire]

It's a 2 piece set, so jacket and trousers. It's the boot thing that's the issue, and carrying both sets in the appliance in case of calls while mobile. 

Haven't had it myself yet. This is a mates kit but looking forward to trying it myself.

[Keith]

We've had a one piece lightweight boiler suit type kit for grass / wild fires for about 10 years now. Generally stays in the kit bag in the locker for most of the year but if there's a spate of grassfires or you get tipped out to one, you bring it with you. We also have a pair of lace up boots as part of the kit, but they can also be worn for all other calls.

[Carl]

As mentioned above, in Manchester we have personal issue layered PPE. Our boots are the same, we do not have incident specific boots. I do believe that a couple of our Wildfire Stations have a dedicated boot, but the majority, its the standard leather firefighter boot.

Our wet legs are the PBI Gold type are worn at all times. We then have a Hi Vis type tunic which is lightweight, this is worn for all your RTC etc and small fires. The Outer PBI Jacket is to be worn for compartment fires, we don't wear the Hi Vis stuff if we are likely to wear a BA Set.

I wont waste space by posting loads of pictures, but I am sure some of the hopefuls will enjoy seeing the PPE on our new recruits which can be viewed here.

 

[Firestorm]

We looked at a layered system some time ago but for some reason, decided not to proceed with it. I'm not sure if it was a cost issue as the benefits of choosing the right PPE for the right job are obvious.

Maybe we aren't to be trusted, after all, people don't seem able to turn up with the right workwear on half the time!

Put a bl00dy shirt on!

[Paul LFB]

Carl is the outer jacket the normal PBI Tunic or is it lighter the fact that its designed to be worn over the Hi Viz jacket. Is the wearing of just the Hi Viz by pump operators or non firefighting personnel on the Fireground accepted.

Maybe I am getting cynical in my old age but now we are covered head to toe and potentially end up in situations we would never have dreamt of entering in the days of plastic pants and gloves. Are we better at firefighting today because of it than we were back then?

[Carl]

Depends what you call Normal PBI Paul? The jacket is very thin compared to a normal tunic and worn in addition to the Hi Viv. I quite like it, especially as it meets the Hi Viz requirements and negates the use of Hi Vis jackets on RTC which as you know just make you sweat. The whole system is meant to be layered. The Hi Viz jacket is also lightweight and so much so we are issued with sweatshirts which can be worn under the jacket in winter. 

In terms of being cynical, I don't think so, we are just developing and moving forward as time does. Who knows what PPE we will be wearing in 50 or 100 years of if fires will be fought using automated systems or some sort of device we send in. 

[BurtMacklin]

In my opinion and from a London point of view just give us lightweight gloves for the 95% of the operational stuff we actually do that doesn't need fire gloves. The choices for interacting with lift machinery, for example, is either fire glove or no glove which is ridiculous. 

[Cardiff_Fire]

Couldn't agree with you more! Huge bugbear of mine is the poor dexterity we have to put up with doing often intricate manual tasks when there is much better out there.

[Dan J]

I was at a meeting the other day where we were told about new firekit coming in soon, we are having new structural kit in the same gold colour, although a new design, a new helmet with integrated torch and new fire boots. We are also going to be issued with a lightweight tunic for your RTC type incidents etc, which is red, and then in a second phase RTC gloves will follow.

[Carl]

On 02/05/2017 at 12:07, BurtMacklin said:

In my opinion and from a London point of view just give us lightweight gloves for the 95% of the operational stuff we actually do that doesn't need fire gloves. The choices for interacting with lift machinery, for example, is either fire glove or no glove which is ridiculous. 

That surprises me. For a long time we have had 2 pairs of gloves, BA gloves and gloves we call RTC gloves which we use for everyday use. I think the change to 2 different types was due to the number of leather BA gloves being returned damaged, or as a risk critical point, a damaged glove causing a burn due to damage sustained on another type of incident.

[Becile]

We too have separate rtc gloves which are generally worn for everything apart from ba when the usual gloves are worn, for the thermal protection, they were introduced through the dexterity issue recognised that the larger gloves were causing issue, as crews were taking them off in order to get the dexterity.

[Lummox]

Hampshire here

• theres been trials of layered and separate kit for about 18months now, a right old mix.
• workwear is hopefully going to be zip up boots, polo shirt and cargo trousers.
• theres a lightweight rescue tunic in either orange or yellow
• theres a structural firefighting tunic and leggings
• the whole concept as I’m led to believe is ‘dress appropriately’
• so as an example
• medical call - normal workwear maybe add jacket.
• lift rescue - workwear plus jacket maybe helmet and gloves 
• rtc/ rope rescue - structural trousers fire boots and rescue jacket.
• fire- structural fire fighting kit if wearing BA otherwise lightweight tunic.

Personally I’m really really keen to take the ‘grown up’ wear the appropriate kit approach. I’m fed up of wearing full fire kit and helmet for a lift rescue or afa when everyone else is in shorts and t shirts. Or getting so hot and taking so much punishment at rtc’s In the summer because we have to wear everything we own to stay ‘safe’.

Sadly there are very few people in a position to ok this kit who actually experience the frustrations of the current workwear/ fire kit.

just need to look at the other blue light services and see the direction they’re going, police especially seem to have a far more practical patrol uniform.

[ChalkAndSheez]

14 hours ago, Lummox said:

just need to look at the other blue light services and see the direction they’re going, police especially seem to have a far more practical patrol uniform.

I'd have to disagree there! In ambo, we have to wear stupid button up shirts all year round, and an under T shirt. In summer you absolutely melt in these things, if you remove the under shirt then your main shirt ends up with white stains and rings all over it from the salt in your sweat, it looks horrendous (and not to mention absolutely stinks). So the only option is to continue wearing the under shirt and sweat like mad.

They won't give us polo shirts for the summer because they're not "infection control compliant". Again, decisions made by people who don't actually have to put up with it in their air conditioned offices, while we're carrying people down multiple flights of stairs or doing CPR in an old person's house with the heating on full blast.

We also have to keep our lunch with us throughout the day, because we can be sent to any station for break. You guessed it, there's no refrigerated place on the ambulance to put your food, so it gets all sweaty and melted and disgusting. They don't supply us with cool boxes either. Unfortunately, every service has it's gripes!

[Jet]

The infection control argument sounds ridiculous to me. In hospitals yes, I get that, I used to work in one, but you’re out in the real world and they think the biggest risk of an infection is going to come from your clothes? Presumably you don’t wash or change your shirt in between calls so how is wearing one reducing the risk of infection?

[ChalkAndSheez]

Because apparently with the button up shirts, if a patient vomits on us or we get blood on it, we can take it off. But with the polo, the act of pulling the shirt over our face to remove it makes it non-compliant because we could end up with infectious material on our faces.

I mean really... I've been in the job for nearly a decade and not once has a patient vomited on my shirt, and I've never got blood on it either!

The biggest issue with guidelines these days is that they're all based on hypotheticals, rather than reality.

[Jet]

The reality being that you’re almost as likely to have someone vomit or spit blood straight into your face anyway....

[Connzcdf]

Unsure if people have seen this one, but MAWWFire released this on 20/02/18. It looks to be a direction both MAWWFire and SWFRS are moving towards.

[Jet]

Not so sure the leggings are absolutely necessary. Why not just wear the jacket with decent, fit for purpose workwear trousers?

Other than that, looks good. I wish GMFRS had taken this approach and not gone layered...

[Percy]

When we change over to our new workwear (maybe this year) Surrey will have a seperate ‘thin’ RTC tunic that will be HI VIZ Yellow so no need to have any surcoats.

The example given doesn’t comply with the latest Class 3 PPE regs as it’s not HI VIZ Yellow or Orange for Highway work, so unless South Wales will be putting surcoats over the top you might want to mention it.

On 20/03/2018 at 20:06, Jamiejet said:

Not so sure the leggings are absolutely necessary. Why not just wear the jacket with decent, fit for purpose workwear trousers?

Other than that, looks good. I wish GMFRS had taken this approach and not gone layered...

Jamie they are necessary owing to PPE Regs and needing two retro reflective strips in the ankle area.

The Highways Agency themselves are changing theirs to comply with Class 3. 

[ChalkAndSheez]

Is it just me or are those lightweight PPE the same as the ones HART has in the ambulance service? Looks similar apart from being red instead of green.