Multi Pump Turnout: Who is First?

[Noddy]

For those on multi pump stations, does the ladder always turnout before the pump or does whichever  is ready to go first just go?

I have been the CM on a multi pump shout with a WM riding the ladder who got the hump cos me and my crew were ready before he and his crew were so we went before them.

When I was the WM on a multi pump station my watch knew I was happy for the pump to go first if it was ready before us.  The BA lads on the back of my ladder would moan a bit if that happened but I don’t see why there should be an unnecessary delay in getting a pump to a job.  I could easily change my tactics on the hoof so no problems.

whats your procedure for this? Wait  for the Gaffa and their truck to be ready and go first or simply whoever is ready turns out? 

[Luminoki]

The ladder is usually first on my station, but thats down to the fact the BRV crew get dressed before jumping in whereas the ladder crew can get dressed on the truck if the severity requires it

[Jet]

I have only ever been based at two pump stations and it has always been the case that the machine with the WM goes first. There have been times when the pump (or 2nd) has been ready whilst there is some sort of delay with the ladder (1st) in which case the former would turnout first so as not to cause a delay.

[Becile]

Noddy , No real protocol on that down here (surrey) all our pumps are the same, so no pump or ladder. Whoevers ready first , goes first.

One of the other factors is the driver knowing where they are going rather than an oic or a ff having to navigate

[Jet]

I don't think it comes down to a physical difference in the pumps. In LFB there was notable difference between pump ladders and pumps, but up in GMC, there's not much in it. But obviously the big difference is the officer in charge. I think it is more of a tradition than anything else, 90% of the time the pumps arrive together, and we always use our first pump (PL) for pumping purely because it is a much more modern and better pump.

[Noddy]

Ye our pumps and ladders were almost identical so it was more on the lines with what Jaime said in that some WM’s simply like to arrive first.... which is stupid I think.  

[Matt]

Tender and Ladder in Humberside are both same expect ladder, depending where you are will depend what is first but generally Tender (P4) is mobilised to everything.  1 station the WM runs in a car so the 3 pumps can turn out and then the WM will be mobilised depending on the job.

Lincolnshire all trucks are same other the WDS/RDS so WDS will go first unless its drill night then RDS get priority on dual stations.

[Firestorm]

Ladder first.

[KentNewt]

I'm at a 2 pump station (day crewed & retained) the WT have the rescue pump and us the water pump, we're never aloud out first if we are going to same job, don't think it's protocol but they get really arsey as there the wholetime pump like to be out first, been a couple of night shouts we've waited (only a matter of seconds) so they can be first out ?

[HoldFast]

@KentNewt wow that’s ridiculous. I’d be racing in just so I could beat them out the doors for that.

Also, if You’re all on call together at night, do you not mix with each other in terms of crews? If not I imagine you sometimes have half a crew on each pump waiting for the rest, with neither pump able to turn out? When you could mix and form a whole crew and get an appliance out the door?

[Mess6311]

GMC first ready is first out the doors. Why waste what could be valuable seconds

[KentNewt]

@HoldFast no mixed crewing that I've ever known of but that is a very good point! I'll shall enquire about it 

[Matt]

Just to throw a spanner in the works, those on aerial stations which goes first, aerial or pump?

[BurtMacklin]

It’s in one of the LFB policies, maybe mobilising can’t remember exactly, that when travelling in convoy the lead vehicle has a watch manager in charge if available, hence the ladder more often than not going first. 

[Noddy]

Which makes no sense?? 

[Keith]

I think it will probably go back to tradition which then became custom and practice or integrated into policy.

Back when we used to send 2 pumps, an ET and an Aerial on the PDA to everything, it was the "Escape" (pump ladder) with a rider Stn O in charge first, the pump next followed by the ET and the aerial bringing up the rear. Each appliance had its set job, PL crew supplied the breaking in gear, ladders if required and ran out the hose from the pump, pump crew supplied the first BA team and supplied the water, ET provided any specialist equipment and set up command and control if required and the aerial was there incase it had gone through the roof! There was always the argument of whether the aerial should go before the ET, but as the aerial is always a bigger wagon that requires a different style of driving, it was always going to be slower so it was common sense for it to be at the back.

Now where it did and continues to make sense, to some extent, is that you do have the Oic arriving first, getting a look at the job and directing operations.

[Jet]

8 hours ago, Matt said:

Just to throw a spanner in the works, those on aerial stations which goes first, aerial or pump?

My very first shift driving, we had an appliance standby at Soho and we got a fire call on Euston's ground. I was following behind Soho's TL which was following their PL (I was driving a PL). So we were effectively Soho's pump. I don't know if that's what they did as it was the only full house run I had out of an aerial station. I was still buzzing long afterwards though ?

[Cashybai]

Depends on a few things..My understanding for the PL going first at a PL/P station was that the PL goes past the job so that they can slip the 135 to pitch if needed, certainly that was the case on most of the outer London double parked residential areas. on a triple (PL/aerial/P) station, the running order was as bracketed so the TL can sit in the middle. PL/FRU is again slightly different, for RTA's on our ground Ladder goes infront to go beyond the scene to set up HRJ etc, on other grounds FRU goes in front so PL can fend off behind it.

[Messyshaw]

The tradition of ladder first in London perhaps is a legacy of when we carried escape ladders. 

It was often impossible to bring the escape ladder to where it was needed if you had to get it around the pump in front. Don't forget, the Guvnor rode the pump so it had nothing to do with getting him there first 

In later years after the 135 was introduced, I saw a relaxing of the ladder first rule. That would be the default,  but if the pumps crew knew the way, they would lead. Or if you had a knackered old spare on the run as PL, the pump would go first to ensure the most rapid arrival time 

[Tom]

In one of the lfb policies it still states the PL should go first at a 2 pump station if possible. Although I did have a guvnor who always insisted the pump went first (although we were the only watch on the station who did that), his reasoning was the pump can set in & it was easier to get the 135 off if the truck wasn’t being used for water. At every other station I’ve served at its always been pl first then aerial (if there is one) then the pump.

[Dan J]

No policy that I know of.  When we were a 2 pump station we used to take rescue pump first then the pump. I did used to love being second out and knowing a shortcut and getting there first ?.