Not Paying Trainees. How Did That Happen?

[Messyshaw]

Despite many changes in the fire service since I joined in the late 1970s, it seems that the new cuddly UK fire service is still a long way off........ 

I read on this forum that LFB Trainees have to complete learning modules at home and without pay prior to attending training school, and that has shocked me! I thought the cost savings with the pre-course module idea was that a smaller training venue was required and less trainers employed. 

Where the hell was the FBU when this was agreed? Just because rogue retailers are doing this, it doesn't mean the LFB have to lower their employment standards to those used by McDonalds!!!

Its ironic that fire services across England & Wales are routinely enforcing fire safety law -  Article 21(2)(e) of the Fire Safety Order - that requires all employers to train their staff in fire safety awareness, and that the training must take place during working hours! Yet the same fire authorities are not paying new staff during their initial training

Sounds like a cynical and corporate case of the LFB having their cake and eating it!!!

Legislation

[Luminoki]

It was the same for my West Mids course Messy. Tbh it wasnt too much of a hardship, i was just happy that i was going to be starting. The alternative im told wouldve been two days in HQ doing the learning, least i was able to mine at home in my underpants

[Lumie]

Hopefully (pending my medical), I'll be going through this. Honestly, it doesn't sound like too much hassle. You do your full time job, and then you have this 6 week course to work through, so it's not like you won't have any money. The Recruitment lady said they do it because if you can't keep up with the 6 week pre-learning course, then there's no point letting you do the 11 week course because you won't keep up. It's kind of like a trial run of who will keep up with the workload of training school.

Then again, I wouldn't say no to extra cash if they offered it!

[TandA]

I suspect the “can’t keep up” argument is just a convenient internal justification for the substantial saving involved in not paying around £3k in gross wages and costs to each trainee. 

[BurtMacklin]

Also you’d like to think the selection process would filter out the people who “wouldn’t keep up” 

[Lumie]

@BurtMacklin eh not really. Nothing so far in the application process for me has challenged how well I can deal with multiple things going on at once, balancing workloads etc. Maybe that’ll be something that comes up in the references check, but as so far, nothing yet that has prepared me of the intensity of training school.

[Jet]

I don't believe the 'keeping up' test. It also doesn't save LFB a dime. It does however save Babcock £thousands.

[Carl]

Many courses these days include pre-course learning which cuts down on the length of the course. However this isn't to say its right in relation to no payment.

[Jet]

I'm genuinely in two minds about the situation. When you have doctors, accountants and pilots investing thousands (hundreds of thousands in the case of the latter) on their career progression, I do wonder if it's such a hardship to study for a few weeks in your own time to prepare you for a new job. But then the other side of me thinks that you should arrive at training centre fresh off the street, ready to learn 'the fire service' way.

[Lumie]

@Jamiejet agreed. Imo, if you can't be bothered to do a few weeks of pre-course learning, then should you really be going into a service that demands a lot from its men and women on the workforce?

[Jet]

You are right @Lumie. Even I had to dedicate much of my spare time to being prepared to pass the course. My flatmate very much begrudged me plunging our flat into total darkness so I could practice tying off for my guideline assessment. Not to mention the many hours of studying for the exams both as an individual and in the local coffee shop (definitely not pub) with the rest of my course.

But like I said I think the way in which the fire service works, much like the military, you should arrive on day one 'none the wiser' and effectively be thrown in the deep end. I don't like that some will be turning up on day one acting like they know it all already and maybe even questioning instructors based on this pre course learning. Not to mention classroom learning has far more advantages than sole home-based learning. It would be interesting to see how many do not pass the welcome day assessment and are then sent on their way, when actually they would have made a good firefighter and just needed some peer support.

[Lumie]

@Jamiejet do you have like a "liason" officer or anything like that for things like this? I just have my medical to go and then I'll be starting my pre-course learning. Say I don't understand something, my godfather did his training over 40 years ago and my dad did his over 15 years ago so they might not know, will there be a dedicated person who could help me? I don't mean to be rude, but the recruitment team take a while to reply to enquiries (1+ weeks) due to the huge load of applicants...

[Jet]

I'm afraid I don't know @Lumie. I joined LFB seven years ago when training was still run by the brigade and there was no pre course learning at all. I'm sure there are some recent trainees that will be able to advise about this.

[Carl]

23 minutes ago, Lumie said:

do you have like a "liason" officer or anything like that for things like this?

Yes, a team of liaison officers can be found here

[Lumie]

@Carl I must admit, I fell for that one. I even went back and pressed it again to see if it was me being an idiot. 

It was a long day yesterday...