Rosenbauer AT

[Becile]

We're going to have to agree to disagree somewhat I think  @Matt  .

Apart from Your comment" a fire engine needs to be reliable and serve it's purpose" which I totally agree with. There is nothing to suggest at this point alternatively powered appliances or new technology won't do that.

If I was taking your example to the enth degree why did we ever change from horse and cart and hand pumps...they did the job right ?(I am being flippant by the way)

How many fire fighters hearing have we affected with those old deisel pumps screaming away to produce water. Whilst emmiting carcinogens into the atmosphere and our pump operator who is stood right next to the pump.

As a slight counter to your off the run argument, in years gone by we would potentially strip a pump to find/fix a fault/ damaged part costing time and effort. Now we just replace said part..it's,all relative and there isn't a one size fits all.

I like the modern pumps with their triple impellers(sorry Matt it does say triple !) that produce more with less due the technological advantages, Having been on a dedicated pump operors course  from the manufacturers many years ago you realise how inneficient some of our pumps actually are.

But hey, we are all different,  what a boring world it would be if we all thought the same.

[Messyshaw]

@Matt Oi, I am suppose to be the forum dinosaur, so move over!

I have no idea whether this appliance will be more or less reliable and I do understand your 'more to go wrong' anxieties. But I am not sure if that concept holds any water.

Cars are now full of electronics. Engine management systems & ignition systems can lead to all sorts of stupid little niggles that you and I can't fix without a diagnostic type laptop thing. Its very annoying to have to go the garage to fix a small problem one used to be able to fix at the side of the road.

But - how much more reliable are cars now? Consider ignition systems. How often do you hear a car 'pink' or overrun after the ignition switch is isolated? Do you remember adjusting the points with a screwdriver in one hand, feeler gauges in another and trying to rotate the base of the points to get the right gap? Or the timing light strobe thing. Hideous 

I doubt there's anyone on this forum that would disagree cars are more reliable in 2018 than they were 30 years ago, and I suggest a huge percentage of that reliability is due to solid state electronics that dispense with mechanical moving parts and can often cope with the harsh environment a foreground (& getting to and from it) can throw at a vehicle 

Surrey F&RS are being pretty brave to be the first, but even if outside activities such as CFS and hydrant inspections are carried out in milk float mode and shouts on small fossil fuel mode, its got to be an improvement hasn't it?

[Matt]

There you've raised a valid area where electric vehicles come in, CFS type duties, hydrants, the none critical things, same with pool cars for running between stations but that's another topic.

I'm not disagreeing that vehicles maybe more reliable but they won't last as long as traditional none electronic type vehicles as you won't be able to source spares and the software to diagnose won't work.  You can easily get 25-30 years out of a current appliance if looked after, given an overhaul, Cornwall are a prime example where they get their monies worth out of their vehicles.

Also minor issues that you have to take vehicles in for where you could fix them, all those little fixes soon add up and cost.

[Becile]

@Matt just so your aware most appliances have a 10-15 year lifespan maximum as industry standard..after that you do run the risk of not being able to source spares as you mention.

 A bold statement where you state "they won't last as long as you won't be able to source spares or software" - as these sort of things are written into most appliance procurement/specifications as basics and requured guarantees, that will need to be met by the provider before they are even approved for purchase.

[Becile]

Well it goes on the run next Thursday !

[Matt]

I have seen one of the Surrey trucks in the flash (the one with the monitor for Salfords) so got to have a good look around it along with a WM friend of mine the other day.

There are good points and bad points about the trucks, I suppose time will tell which way it goes but there are some things I can see been an issue which probably should have been done different but could mean they spend more time in the workshops.  The build quality wasn't what I was expecting either for a company the size they are.

I also managed to have a look at one of the smaller ones in build for Cornwall and both are more advanced than they need to be and I think the electronics/technology will fail what could be a good truck.