Jump to content

Electric Appliances


Recommended Posts

When I first joined, the LFB always rode with the Station Officer on the pump - goodness knows why? The Guvnor could be out on a bin alight and the Temp LFF would pick up a persons reported. What fun it was to see a grumpy (dirty) white helmet stamping around because he had missed the job!!

 

I will be interested how the trial goes. To be fair, fire appliances ( especially in Greater London) do not do a lot of milage or minutes of running compared to a commercial vehicle, plus they do stand for periods where rapid charging could easily take place 

Its pumping for 4 or 5 hours with a lighting mast up and maybe warning lights and heaters on that will be the big test. So lets hope the LFB send it on a few reliefs to really test it.

We had an early Dodge Pump  at one of my stations. One of its peculiarities was the speedo was always engaged when pumping. We also kept log books recording each trip, and a rubbish chute job half a mile away would see the pump 'driving' 15 miles as the high revs needed for the hosereels added the mileage on. So that gives an idea of the work an EV pump will face for even a bread and butter shout.

Lets hope the trials are successful as this has to be the future 

  • Like 1
Link to comment

when electric charging infrastructure becomes wide spread augmenting the supply of power may be as simple as bowling out a cable to the nearest on street charger, could be as easy as getting water is in london 

Link to comment

I suppose it would be simple for an appliance that is not actually being used to be a power donor to a pumping appliance. Or an OSU could deliver auxiliary battery packs to a protracted job not near to a charging point. Lots of options out there potentially. 

Link to comment

I went to an EV conference fairly recently. Much of the presentations were either technical or related to sustainability etc, but an expert in power supplies gave a very grave warning about peak use of electricity.

He warned that the growth of EVs is far more rapid than the electrical supply industry can cope in terms of matching capacity at peak times. He predicted that EVs would arrive home as the evening peak (cooking etc) was at its height. In the winter things would be worse, as more homes will become electrically heated as natural gas is scaled back and LPG is seen as not sustainable and taxed heavily. And in the predicted hotter summer, more homes will have AC which will effect power supplies.

He warned that they can make enough power, but the UK's networks - and in particular local power networks in your street - so authorities are already talking about rationing power in street chargers in residential areas. So instead of coming home at 6 and plugging in, the charger won't be live until 9pm. 

He warned that the idea that EVs are the dream machine that will make our lives better, may in purely practical terms not really achieve that for a generation or more.

So relying on street EV chargers for a resilient power supply for pumps might not be the best strategy 

Link to comment
1 hour ago, Messyshaw said:

I went to an EV conference fairly recently. Much of the presentations were either technical or related to sustainability etc, but an expert in power supplies gave a very grave warning about peak use of electricity.

He warned that the growth of EVs is far more rapid than the electrical supply industry can cope in terms of matching capacity at peak times. He predicted that EVs would arrive home as the evening peak (cooking etc) was at its height. In the winter things would be worse, as more homes will become electrically heated as natural gas is scaled back and LPG is seen as not sustainable and taxed heavily. And in the predicted hotter summer, more homes will have AC which will effect power supplies.

He warned that they can make enough power, but the UK's networks - and in particular local power networks in your street - so authorities are already talking about rationing power in street chargers in residential areas. So instead of coming home at 6 and plugging in, the charger won't be live until 9pm. 

He warned that the idea that EVs are the dream machine that will make our lives better, may in purely practical terms not really achieve that for a generation or more.

So relying on street EV chargers for a resilient power supply for pumps might not be the best strategy 

And that is why I've ordered another Diesel.... albeit with mild hybrid, the technology just isn't there yet. I think I'm still a couple of cars away from a pure EV yet. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
On 09/11/2020 at 18:30, Matt said:

I know technology is improving all the time and there is a need to cut emissions etc, the chassis is a Volvo and truck wise they are well built, Emergency One are the UK builder of choice and not wanting to go the hybrid route have come up with a good option lots of boxes ticked so far and they are not going to launch something that won't have had some testing to prove its worth.

So information on this is a little vague at the moment but what happens if your out all day job to job or spate conditions, back on station and then out within the hour is it going to have enough juice to perform and especially if you are pumping its going to zap the power or is that powered differently?  

Concept wise great to see a full size Type B but what cost to the job let alone value of vehicle is this going to come at?  Replacement batteries I know for cars they can be pricey what about the monsters that are going to be on here?  Not against it in the slightest but as an emergency service you need to be good to go what ever and you cannot be waiting to charge up before you go out again.  I know there are some big connections you can get for them but how will the local infrastructure in the middle of no where cope as that has been one thing raised as more cars start zapping power can local infrastructure deal with it.

Glad to see full size rather than something small I just not sure if things are quite at the level to go live with this, similar with Ambulances, yes they don't draw as much but they are on the go 24/7 with barely any downtime.

I can't understand why electric cars and trucks, etc don't have solar panels on the roof, bonnet, etc. Surely that would be easy to do and would lengthen the distance between recharging from the mains. That would overcome your problem.

Link to comment
On 03/12/2021 at 00:24, Jet said:

So the Stn/O is really going to love going out to two pump bin fires then 🤣

I wonder what the plan is. Will they cover it with the ladder from Hammersmith, which seems obvious ? Or will they cover it with the next nearest pumping appliance to the incident address ?  If you think about, in any depth then the latter makes more sense.  When that appliance is going onto a 3 am relief at Dagenham or Park Royal, it’s not Hammersmith’s ladder with a Stn.O attribute you want over there….

Link to comment
On 31/01/2018 at 17:36, Messyshaw said:

There are electric buses in London, but the ones I know about are only on a v short route.

In Luxembourg we have lots of electric buses. They have special overhead gantries at various places where they can charge in 7 minutes they say. And they are frequent enough for the buses not to have to charge fully all the time, so if they are behind schedule they can simply not recharge until the terminus. If they are ahead of time, instead of just sitting and waiting they charge up. The concept doesn't seem to give any trouble. At least over the 7 or 8 years they have been doing it.

Link to comment
  • 2 months later...
  • 2 months later...
  • 4 months later...
On 01/03/2022 at 13:38, BurtMacklin said:

Broke down on its way to be delivered and hasn’t been heard about since 

Its been stealing the show at our UKRO this week

  • Like 1
Link to comment

Luminoki since it first hit the capital its been back and had the batteries upgraded which was back in April the same time the Scottish version was just a chassis.  

Time will tell although apparently Emergency One have done alot of work on the electric idea, for me its a critical vehicle it should be left as is.  The only way to get the rapid charging on station is DC to DC which would require a small container of batteries in the yard to carry this out which would then trickle charge up.

Link to comment

@Matt. Why is DC to DC the only rapid charge method on stations?

OK some rapid chargers need 80 amp 3 phase supplies. If a station hasn't got that electrical capacity, it will almost certainly be available outside and could be installed in the appliance room or yard

It will cost a few quid  but this is the future 

Link to comment

@Kinmel. That's an interesting link. Thanks

I reckon custoners such as the LFB, MoD and NHS may just do a Phil and Holly and be prioritised 

But the article shows the hidden dilemma re supply - especially in peak hours . I went to a conference before covid re EV infrastructure and an expert there talked about rationing suppliers to street chargers (or streets!) to avoid the 4 to 8pm peak, especially in winter when CH fires up, ovens go on and millions plug their EVs in

Cold Sunday lunches and hot days during working hours (AC demand) may cause peaks that cannot be met

He said its not generation of power, its the distribution network, especially near to homes

This may well twart Govt EV targets

Link to comment

rationing is already happenning with some chargers at motorway services, at peak times they automatically cut off when the battery is 66% charged. If you try again your card is rejected.

  • Sad 1
Link to comment
  • 2 weeks later...
On 04/10/2022 at 11:42, Messyshaw said:

@Matt. Why is DC to DC the only rapid charge method on stations?

OK some rapid chargers need 80 amp 3 phase supplies. If a station hasn't got that electrical capacity, it will almost certainly be available outside and could be installed in the appliance room or yard

It will cost a few quid  but this is the future 

I don't know the ins and outs of it, still learning about it but it was what I was told that the DC to DC dump from batteries can transfer in seconds/minutes and then trickle charge backup but a mains charge for something the size of these would be maybe 30-60 mins (don't quote on figures) so for a rapid charge to be available it was what they said.  I stand to be corrected on this though.

  • Like 1
Link to comment

I think the game changer will be the routine availability of 800v batteries, which will provide twice the power and halve charging times.

A DC to DC dump into a discharged battery will need some hefty equipment to prevent an explosion, Lithium and high temperatures don't mix well as we hobbyists know only too well.

Link to comment

Surely any fire appliance must have a hybrid element- to allow it to work for many hours pumping at night with blues and a floodlight on - and to allow it to be immediately be available on its return to station

The idea of it staying off the run while it recharges to a suitable level is ridiculous 

  • Agree 1
Link to comment

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...