WC(A) and (B)

[Luminoki]

With the above title, what does your service do about the above ranks operationally. Word has spread that all WCs have been made B’s in northants ( I believe most of the WT are single pumps ) following an FBU campaign. Any thoughts? ( I understand LFB is different with their role to rank change )

[Yoffey]

As you know WCB in West Mids on multi pump. WCA on single and late stations. It’s long being mooted to lose WCdr on lates and make the core a WCdr B.

[Becile]

All WCB in Surrey now

[Carl]

We used the A and B when it first moved from rank to role for about a year. Last 15 years plus, all B. 

[Luminoki]

I presume before the shifts in Surrey and GMC the A and B were linked to how many people were being managed. What drove the change?

[Carl]

In GMC, Watch Managers who were in charge of a 1 pump station were A and those in charge of 2, were B at the point of change. However, all the A's got made B's not long after. We have never had A and B at any other rank, everything B's.

[TandA]

Essex have always been all Bs from the day of the change iirc.  Very similar to GMC in that 2 pumps under the old ranks was a rider StnO with a SubO as 2IC, a 1 pump was a SubO in Charge and a Lff.  There were a few anomalies though if specials got added to the mix and when they looked to iron them out, the FBU made the case that the best solution was making them all WM(B).

[Keith]

This was one of the nonsenses that came from the rank to role changes following the national pay dispute in 2002 - 2003. The idea was to introduce a more streamlined structure by reducing the number of ranks into roles. At this level L/F's, Sub's and Rider StnO became CM and WM, only WM had A and B pay scales, depending on the number of people you managed. So we reduced 3 ranks to 3 roles, spot the difference.

Other problem was every brigade and service done their own thing so there was no consistency. Some have abandoned it and made them all B's, with LFB going further and reverted back to the old ranks. I actually thought this would catch on across the country again, but it hasn't so far.

There was no actual difference on the fireground they were all treated the same.

We're still stuck with it, as others have said B for the multi pump stations, A for the 1 pumps and support, training and fire safety roles. We also complicated it further by using the term Watch Commander W/C instead of Manager, although I think some other services also use it.

[C_Iain]

 

On 03/09/2024 at 23:06, Keith said:

We're still stuck with it, as others have said B for the multi pump stations, A for the 1 pumps and support, training and fire safety roles. We also complicated it further by using the term Watch Commander W/C instead of Manager, although I think some other services also use it.

Even more mind-boggling (for an outsider looking in anyway) is that NI still use the original rank markings @Keith 🤯😂

Northumberland have still got WM(A) & WM(B). The two WT stations, both multi-pump, have B’s and the two single pump day-staffing stations have A’s.
Not heard any talk of changing, but with the day-staffing pay enhancements, the WM(A)’s are actually better paid anyway.

Personally, even though I was in primary school when they changed, I’d much rather see a return to LFF, SubO, StnO, etc. We’re a disciplined, uniformed public service, not a supermarket, we should have officers, not managers.

[Becile]

On 03/09/2024 at 22:50, Carl said:

In GMC, Watch Managers who were in charge of a 1 pump station were A and those in charge of 2, were B at the point of change. However, all the A's got made B's not long after. We have never had A and B at any other rank, everything B's.

Same as Carl, except there are some SC A (days)

[Steve]

LFB ended up in such a pickle with it.... mainly around the fact of which CM's could take charge if the WM was off. Previously, if the Stn O was off, the Sub O was IC, if they were off a substantive Lff would act up. LFB ended up with CM development, CM, CM * (who I think wanted to act up) and CM^ (who I think could act up), it was so complicated even I can't remember clearly. That is why we (as Borough Commanders) had a bit of a rebellion in around 2016/17 and from that they (surprisingly) listened and re-introduced Lff, Sub O and Stn O. 

[Jet]

LFB had FF^ (read as 'FF hat') which was a FF that was obliged to act up a minimum of shifts per year in return for a sweetener (even if they weren't utilised). There was also CM+ but f*k knows if I remember what that was 😅. Whole thing was a mess.

[LFB92]

I think CM+ had to act up to WM if needed but could only do it a certain amount of times if I remember it right. It was a voluntary thing I think. Wasn't there also a CM*?

So glad we changed 😂