Somerset House

[Becile]

A recent press picture from yesterday,  no doubt taken from a mile away . 

A couple of observations, fall protection devices worn but not used (work restraint)?

Still a fire (smoke can be seen) yet gloves in pocket.?

I'm hoping that gas detector hes wearing is turned on.?

Appreciate this is a snapshot in time and it doesnt paint thd whole picture.

Its not a pop at LFB...it's a great training /learning picture in my humble opinion.

[LFB92]

He's a TL operator, he has stepped out of the cage where he would have been clipped on. Perhaps line ops may have been required but it's impossible to tell from that photo, more than likely he was on a tight brief and the photo looks like there was some form of balcony below.

As a junior officer I would expect that he is switched on enough to know when or when not he needs to be wearing gloves.

The gas monitors are always on.

As you say, just a snapshot in time.

[Vema11]

Seems like you’re trying to pull something out of nothing. 

As a Crew commander, I’d trust my firefighters to know when they need to clip onto fall arrest etc, it looks perfectly safe platform, usually know when you need your gloves or not.

Do you really need the gas monitor on  outside of a building? , it’s not an enclosed space so I wouldn’t be to worried about a build up of gases? 

Don’t see anything wrong with the picture. 

[Messyshaw]

One of the ladders was used for WAH restraint. This device is lifted over the site and a number of FFs can clip on to it.  It really is important  to be a bit careful when commenting on the job via one photo - I leave that to the Daily Mail 

Frankly - taking into account the hugely difficult access to this part of the roof of this 228 year old roof,  I thought it looked like a bloody good stop 👏

NB: I dont think the stone vase in the image is part of the LFB kit 😉

[Becile]

16 hours ago, Vema11 said:

Seems like you’re trying to pull something out of nothing. 

As a Crew commander, I’d trust my firefighters to know when they need to clip onto fall arrest etc, it looks perfectly safe platform, usually know when you need your gloves or not.

Do you really need the gas monitor on  outside of a building? , it’s not an enclosed space so I wouldn’t be to worried about a build up of gases? 

Don’t see anything wrong with the picture. 

I didn't say there was anything wrong, for the very reason the there is a question mark on the questions, and you guys have responded with some answers,  always discussion points. 

I have a slighly different view on the gas detector however. Just because it's not confined, might be harmful (dependent on gases monitored)

[Keith]

Saw this on the news and hearing the value of some of the artworks, it got me thinking on a few fronts. No doubt there would be a salvage plan in place for such a building but what would your immediately priorities be if the curator is in your ear about the Van Gough whilst the fire is racing along the roof. Fight the fire or start the salvage operations?

Then who actual does the salvage, firefighters aren't exactly know for their delicate skills when damping down and cutting away. Letting some of the crews lose would be akin to getting Del and Rodney in to clean the chandelier.🤣

[Healdav]

There used to be salvage organisation in London that worked with the Fire Service. Does it still exist? If it does they would have been busy taking things out of the building and covering the interior of it with tarpaulins, etc.

[Kinmel]

The London Salvage Corp closed in 1984....... London Salvage Corp.

Salvage Corps existed in Liverpool and Glasgow too.

Brigades local to the Corps kept them informed of working jobs and they made their own decisions as to whether to attend.  They would also usually attend at the specific request of a Brigade.

While I was on various stations in the Merseyside Brigades, life always became  a lot easier with the Salvage Corp working alongside us.   Diverting water, sheeting up and removing stock and valuables. They often remainded on site long after we left.

[Steve]

On 19/08/2024 at 17:24, Keith said:

Saw this on the news and hearing the value of some of the artworks, it got me thinking on a few fronts. No doubt there would be a salvage plan in place for such a building but what would your immediately priorities be if the curator is in your ear about the Van Gough whilst the fire is racing along the roof. Fight the fire or start the salvage operations?

Then who actual does the salvage, firefighters aren't exactly know for their delicate skills when damping down and cutting away. Letting some of the crews lose would be akin to getting Del and Rodney in to clean the chandelier.🤣

These places do have salvage plans and there is a 'heritage building' department within fire safety that works specifically to advise on their protection. They regularly practice their plans with LFB Ops crews and I have no doubt the initial IC (who I know) would have made up once the fire was confirmed taking the salvage requirements into consideration. Albeit there might not have ben that much in terms of valuable artwork in that wing of the building, the protection of the building itself would have been a primary factor with initial information gathering and planning.  I agree with others on here, for such a complex old building with dried timbers etc, the combination of the inbuilt fire protection measures and LFB actions produced a very quick stop on the fire. Well done.

[Messyshaw]

BBC News report about salvage efforts at the above fire.

Its interesting to note that the spokesperson mentioned the Notre Dam and Glasgow School of Art fires. Both lost significant historic artefacts and in my experience many managers of historic buildings or those containing valuable art really do take salvage seriously. When in a NT house, if you look carefully under table cloths or in cupboards you will find equipment that staff can use to move or cover art works 

Sadly many of the fires in such places happen in rural areas or out of hours when staff are some distance/time away which delay or thwart salvage attempts 

As Steve has said, the LFB have a Heritage section in their Fire Safety Dept who have produced a good bit of advice here 

My own personal anxiety - even though I am long retired - is a fire in the Palace of Westminster (containing the Houses of Parliament & Lords). Such an amazing building, although entirely  unfit for the role. They have a large fire team there 24/7 and just as well, as if they don't stop any job quickly, the LFB will have quite a challenge on their hands - possibly an impossible one 

[Keith]

2 hours ago, Messyshaw said:

My own personal anxiety - is a fire in the Palace of Westminster (containing the Houses of Parliament & Lords)

Get where you're coming from Messy given the tradition, history and national importance of the building, however given the large numbers of less than honourable members that have disgraced it and us, in recent years, could see a few channelling their inner Guy Fawkes.

10 hours ago, Steve said:

They regularly practice their plans with LFB Ops crews

Does LFB have any dedicated crews or stations where this would be a specialism, similar to Mass Decon, USAR, etc Steve or just ops crews in general?

[LFB92]

No dedicated crews Keith. During visits, we tend to ask about salvage plans and pretty much all buildings I have visited which have some historical importance, all have large and clear salvage plans.

 

 

[JL_Martin]

Do UK fire services have pieces of art / artifacts salvage plans in the museums / historical buildings ?

[TandA]

Yes.  Certainly the major stately home near to me has extensive salvage plans that I hope I never have to put into practice.  I don’t feel suitably qualified to take a Stanley knife to a renaissance masterpiece to cut it out of the frame.  Apparently frames are replaceable but the artwork is not.