Government White Paper

[Healdav]

It will have a big effect. Funding will either go up a lot or down a lot. Which it will be is hard to tell.

[Yoffey]

Still intrigued as to when the Govt White paper is going to be published. Seemed to be a big thing earlier in the year and suddenly gone very quiet.

[Carl]

Personally I think it will be after April and seriously watered down. I also have my doubts it will ever materialise. 

Of course, I stand to be proven wrong 🤷‍♂️

[Messyshaw]

Just an idea thought - Do you think evidence and political fallout from the Grenfell Inquiry may have held up the White Paper?

It would be embarrassing if the White Paper recommended one thing and the Grenfell Inquiry recommended the complete opposite. 🙄

Or am I being naive to think there is this level of joined up thinking in Whitehall?😉

[Becile]

@Messyshawyep - naive to believe there's any thinking,let alone be it joined up !😄

[Luminoki]

Announced today that Scottish FRS will be given an extra £9.5 million in their annual budget for, amongst other things, improving medical response capability

[WayneHealey]

Home Secretary Unveils Ambitious Plans for Fire Reform

Reforming Our Fire and Rescue Service - Consultation Document

Edited May 18, 2022 by Carl
Links formatted correctly. Please see FAQ

[LFB92]

Why was the link removed?

[Carl]

They were removed, temporarily, as they were simply copy and pasted links which whilst they are clickable, do nothing for the forum when other members come to searching for them later on. We hide them, rectify them and then unhide them. I am on a 24 so not had the opportunity as yet. 

We want the forum to become a database that people can search in the future, and find the information they need, or have seen previously, based on keywords and descriptions. If members simply post a copy and paste a link with no descriptions, it provides nothing long term, especially if the link changes or expires. Links are not catalogued by the forum and are not searchable, descriptions in links are. With a description, we can make attempts to rectify broken links, especially when members post "Why doesn't the link work" in the future. 

Full details on how to link were added at the forum inception. If members could take note of the hints and tips within this section, it would assist us greatly. 

Hope that clarifies it?

[WayneHealey]

Thanks Carl 😉👍🏻

[Becile]

Makes intersting bedtime reading...lets see what happens

[TheSmiler]

Quote

At the centre of the White Paper are plans to deliver:

• Increased public safety: by improving the professionalism of the fire and rescue service through modern workforce practices and potentially establishing a College of Fire and Rescue.
• Improved accountability: through the proposals to transfer fire governance to a single elected individual, overseeing delivery by operationally independent Chief Fire Officers.

As a long-serving member of Police Staff, this all sounds very familiar. It seems Fire and Rescue are going the same way as the Police.

The College of Policing was established in 2012, which has been a good thing in my opinion. I'd say we're better for it and it does make sense.

On the other hand, I'm sorry to say that the introduction of the Police and Crime Commissioner role has not been good.

Having what is essentially a highly-paid politician making expensive and controversial decisions, and a fair share of u-turns, have caused problems.
Closing police stations to save money, then surprise announcements to open them again months later. It's exactly how you'd expect this sort of thing to work.

The mentioned "single elected individual" here sounds like the Fire Service's PCC counterpart. Another layer of oversight for the senior management's senior management.

[Crog]

Being a former PC, I’ve yet to find any officer that thinks the college is a good thing.

[Messyshaw]

The outcome of the first ever FBU national strike in 1977/8 was the introduction of a 'pay formula'

It linked fireman's pay with the salaries of the ' upper quartile' manual workers. Every year our pay award was automatic and this risk of disputes was removed.

While that link may not be relevant now, (as manufacturering is not as large in the UK) an independent body may be the way to go

After all, the MPs don't do bad out of theirs 😉

[Out In The Past]

My concern comes from cynicism that nothing the government will ever suggest will be in our best interests - and I say that as someone who thinks the fbu pay negotiation is absolutely abysmal. 

[Jet]

The removal of collective bargaining and, more alarming, the removal of the right to strike is something that all of us should be concerned about. Previous posters are right to compare our trajectory with that of the police. Although the police have not been able to strike in living memory, these proposals mean we could be in the same helpless position as police officers are now, with the FBU acting as a mere body with which to lodge grievances through. 

I don't understand why we should give up anything at all, even if the collective bargaining hasn't necessarily put extra money in our pockets in recent years. Do you honestly think a pay review body would have given us more? If you think so then ask the NHS...

[Messyshaw]

Sorry. I  hadn't seen the proposals in the White Paper relating to the removal of the right to strike, but I would not be suprised if it were on the agenda.

Would-be, serving and former UKFRS staff will say with a unified voice how important the role of the fire service is in society. For numerous people this very day, sadly it will be critical

So striking must always be the last resort for any dispute. A system that reduces the risk of industrial conflict must be welcomed but NOT if it removes the right to strike.

From somebody who has experience in this area, I would strongly advise that serving staff should resist - indeed fight- any suggestions to remove or restrict strike action with all vigour. 

A staff representation system, arbitration or some HR fudge would be offered, but conditions will be worn away including pay and pension entitlement 

 

[Yoffey]

Looks like they want to push the White Paper through quickly .

Edited January 22, 2023 by Carl
Link formatted correctly.

[Percy]

On 19/05/2022 at 23:31, Jet said:

The removal of collective bargaining and, more alarming, the removal of the right to strike is something that all of us should be concerned about. Previous posters are right to compare our trajectory with that of the police. Although the police have not been able to strike in living memory, these proposals mean we could be in the same helpless position as police officers are now, with the FBU acting as a mere body with which to lodge grievances through. 

I don't understand why we should give up anything at all, even if the collective bargaining hasn't necessarily put extra money in our pockets in recent years. Do you honestly think a pay review body would have given us more? If you think so then ask the NHS...

The Police sold their ‘right to strike’ in 1919 for a considerable fee and an agreed pay structure that didn’t really change in half a century.

On 19/05/2022 at 18:57, Messyshaw said:

The outcome of the first ever FBU national strike in 1977/8 was the introduction of a 'pay formula'

It linked fireman's pay with the salaries of the ' upper quartile' manual workers. Every year our pay award was automatic and this risk of disputes was removed.

While that link may not be relevant now, (as manufacturering is not as large in the UK) an independent body may be the way to go

After all, the MPs don't do bad out of theirs 😉

For reference, not doing ‘too bad’ from an ‘independent’ pay body has seen MPs pay rise by 31%, I kid ye not, to £86.5k an increase of over 20k in the very same ‘we are all in it together’ period of austerity 2010- 🤷🏻‍♂️ #hypocrites #obscene 

[Yoffey]

So has the White Paper been shelved as its over a year since published. All seems to have gone quiet. Has anyone heard it being mentioned in their brigade. Wondering if it going to disappear like the Bain and Fit for fire reports of the years gone by ?

[Luminoki]

On 10/12/2021 at 16:21, Luminoki said:

Announced today that Scottish FRS will be given an extra £9.5 million in their annual budget for, amongst other things, improving medical response capability

Has anything come of this with the current consultation

[Madhatter]

From what I’ve heard, the service and the union have an agreement in principle for the expanded role but no funding from Scottish government to enable it. The additional £9m was spent on the pay rise last year for most part