UCLan / Post Fire Decontamination

[Becile]

Since the original post I think many services have "pulled their socks up" with investment being made ultimately leading to improved health and well being.

Clean cab policies, clean dirty areas, decon proceedures, wipes, washing machines, laundry proceedures etc etc. But most of all awareness, education and a culture change.

[Vema11]

On 08/12/2020 at 10:58, NickW said:

All new appliances in Scotland (scanias) have a slide out on each side behind the cab for 2 BA sets each side. The old arguments are getting tired about the delay in getting your set on etc.  By the time all the equipment is off the pump set up you easily have enough time to get donned. Honestly,got to look at the long term effects of contaminants. Look at the swedes in the above clip, also the dutch, we are about 10 years behind.

@NickW I like others would really struggle with this. Being a firefighter comes with risks. (Occasionally breathing in smoke or being contaminated) can’t be removed completely. I 100% agree the service should be doing more, proper BA washing machines, dirty fire kit lockers, extra sets of clean fire kit on station or in lockers, decon wipes, cleaning cabs before and after every shift, seat covers, going off the run until you’ve had a shower and changed gear over, absolutely.. but having sets in the lockers to me is completely bonkers. I can’t imagine turning up to a persons and then getting your set from the lockers, I fear the moral pressure would rush you and maybe miss open skin on your hood or not get the right seal on your mask, and then going about getting a reel off, breaking in gear, putting your tally in the board etc.. For me I would happily accept that risk to save 30/40 seconds to potentially start searching quicker. Personally I’d much prefer that two CLEAN attack sets are kept in the cab.. 

[Dangly1]

I think it's only going to go one way and eventually pumps will have storage for all their sets in lockers rather than the cabs.

Attitudes to it will slowly change much the same as wearing BA at a car fire would have been laughed at by the majority of ff 20 years ago but is the norm now.

I have to disagree with you about your reasons for keeping sets in the cab. You're just as if not more likely to miss bare skin by not putting your flashhood on properly because you're rushing to put your set on in a tight cramped cab in the dark whilst the truck flies to the shout throwing you around. As for the right seal on the mask you shouldn't be going under air in the cab anyway-persons reported or not I've never seen it or known people to do that so that's a non starter. 

I know what you're saying and agree that extra 30/40 seconds could make the difference- but by the time you've got off opened the locker put your set on the driver still has to put the pump in and get round the back to sort the pressure etc I can guarantee even with an efficient driver the hosereel will only just be coming off and ready to be used at the same time as you've got your set on.

If they were clean sets that would be great but what are our procedures for cleaning sets after a job at the moment? Change of cylinder give the facemask a wash and the set a wipe down. it still smells of fire and we've all been there when the next watch/crew gets in 'smells like a proper fire engine' or 'can tell you've had a job'. This isn't clean clean and need the proper BA set cleaning machines which sadly the majority of services just don't have and can't see them being commonplace for a long time.

[Crog]

My issue with sets disappearing from the cab is that we have many streets that are very tight and we struggle with getting into lockers and getting kit out, sometimes having to pass over vehicles to be able to get it out. This issue won’t change due to increase in cars in the area and is something we live with. We won’t be able to get rigged with the set in the lockers somewhere and will then have the issue of stopping some distance from the scene to either get rigged and climb back into cab, or run to the scene, both causing delays.

I’d like 2 in cab and 2 out, rotate them when dirty and ensure they get a proper clean (preferably the specific cleaners, but funds are stopping that). Can easily design the cab interior that stops rigging en route.

[Vema11]

 Just an example of what I mean I also know every service have different attitudes and ideas but hear me out.. getting under air in the pump is common for a persons reported, usually only if you can see smoke so you know it’s a job. The cabs have plenty of lights and enough room to get under air safely whilst the 5 helps you get rigged in a set and gives you a once over. Our BA boards are in the cabs so our tallies go in the board before we get off. We also have automatic REVs to 25 bar when the driver presses  the PTO button in the cab, which enables us to grab the reel and go straight away at any fire saving more time. 
so I personally can’t imagine how having sets in a locker wouldn’t increase the amount of time outside a job and provide a better service to the public if we take longer the fire developments more the chances of survival decreases etc. 
cleaning before and after jobs with the right equipment,  BA washing machines,  washing fire kit, two clean attack sets at all times seems to be more beneficial and wouldn’t affect operations. 

[Messyshaw]

This is more than attitudes or different cultures between individual fire & reduce services or generations. Neither can this critical subject be allowed to drag on for decades like the issue of BA and car fires did. Doing nothing is not an option. I am 61 and have old LFB friends dropping like flies through cancer - some younger than me.

We ate smoke, dirty fire kit was a badge of honour. A heavily smoked fire helmet would be left as long as possible and certainly something to show off (casually) to the clean and envious standby crew who have spent the last 3 to 4 hours stealing your tea!  

Were we stupid? No, just ignorant of the facts that you lot now know. Stupid is not acting upon that knowledge you have to enable you to enjoy your grandchildren into your last few years

The 2 sets in the cab - duly cleaned in a purpose built cleaning rig - and available for an immediate attack has to be the way forward. I would even say that spare clean sets in polythene bags should be available for a quick turn around back at the station. Absolutely no shitty fire uniform to be allowed in the crew cab, except in exception circumstances, which lead to a deep clean afterwards. Crews would need to chain into paper boiler suits, and bag up dirty kit to be carried elsewhere. It certainly needs investment, and perhaps some kit may have to be taken off older appliances to make room for the clean/dirty zoning.

And on the subject of culture, lets think about the fire service I joined, admittedly a few decades back

We had oxygen (photo) BA sets. It was engrained in every one of us that oil and other chemicals don't mix well with pressurised oxygen, so huge efforts were made. No fire kit in the BA room, and we banned untrained cleaners from the BA room and cleaned it ourselves. Big signs everywhere reminded us of the rule, if you wanted to avoid an explosion (I was always very strict as my Dad was partly deaf from an O2 explosion in the Royal Navy after some nob 'oiled' a squeaky thread on a oxygen filling hose connector).

Then and now, decon areas at hazmat incident involves clean and dirty areas 

So none of this is new, its applying that concept to a fire engine cab that's the novel bit

Lastly rigging in BA en route. There is a time and place for it. Yes for fire calls but only the first pump. No for AFAs. Its not about saving time, its about making time to rig properly before the pressure is on to move.

I have only started up in the cab once as we had a good look at the job a way away and could see loads of people at windows (15 in all). That should not be the norm as who wants to leg it up even 4 floors when started up? No thanks