Who Still Has Beds?

[Carl]

1 hour ago, Rory-495 said:

you never know

Or perhaps we do 

 

[OscarTango]

Come on Carl stop flirting tell your boys and girls they've got their beds back 🤣

[Carl]

On 26/03/2021 at 02:18, Carl said:

I am not saying for one minute they are coming back to GMFRS but a replacement is being looked at. Watch this space.

It certainly looks like it and its no big secret as I suspect many of the crews will know. The current resting facilities are past their sell by date and work is being completed to trial some different resting platforms. The biggest issue we have is that over 15 or so years, many stations have changed layouts so dorms no longer exist and the new builds didn't come with them, so this is something which will have to be taken into account. Im sure those from our stations who are on here may be able to add more info based on their particular station. 

[OscarTango]

What with all the research on sleep deprivation in the news in recent years I'd like to think more brigades are re thinking their punitive bed withdrawls

[CaptainFlack]

There's a few different types of bed going round for crews to trial. I haven't seen these but I think there's a concensus on the popular one. Unsure if we're all going to get issued one or share them between watches and swap the bedding over.

As Carl has said the dedicated dorms have gone and would be tricky to convert back for some plus no one wants to go back to all being in one room again.  All before my time but the stories of what went on are ridiculous.

I'm fortunate enough to be at a large 2 x pumper and there's easily a room for each of us to hide away in from midnight of course 😎, with our own comforts ready to respond when needed.  I personally purchased a high end double ez-bed which is more than enough for me so I'll politely decline these new ones. 

It's always a sticky subject beds in the fire service when asked but I'm glad we seem to be heading back in the right direction. 

[Messyshaw]

As a hard working member of the public (& part time troll)  I feel that it's time for beds to go. Why should I pay you to sleep when I do it for nothing?

Ok, I am pulling your leg, as it was a perk I enjoyed, but how would you answer that?

Its no good talking about sleep deprivation as many tens of thousands of people work wakeful night shifts every evening 

[LFB92]

I would say if they don’t like they can always apply to the fire service! I don’t think we need to justify anything we do to be honest. Most people know we sleep on nights and I’ve never heard anyone actually complain about it.

As someone else mentioned on this thread what’s the point in being up for no real reason. End of the day we are at a fire station, providing fire cover. If my house was on fire I would rather a crew arrived well rested than a crew forced to stay up all night doing nothing.

ive worked both types of night jobs and I personally wouldn’t return to a job where you can’t get your nut down between working.

[OscarTango]

"Well that's arse about face. You pay me to provide a fire and rescue service 24/7. You don't pay me to sleep. Sleep is a mitigation for a long term health hazard associated with the job (sleep deprivation). Regardless, if I get a shout at in the middle if the night, I go. 

You as a member of the public expect me to be as ready as possible, day or night. No shift allowance and no meaningful pay rise. So be it. Il work through the night with a smile on may face if there is meaningful work to be done. And I do. 

Even the ambulance are allowed to sleep but the demands that you, the public, put upon mean that they are denied that. The average police officer and paramedic do a fraction of the time we will be expected to work for because of this." 

Something like that.

[Noddy]

Interesting.  We lost our beds either just before or when GMC did.  I no longer work nights on a fire station, turning out from home, but I wonder if West Mids will follow suit? 

[Healdav]

Civilians often bring up, "But they sleep all night, and then clean windows during the day". I pointed out to one person that there are shouts at night. " Do they gave to get up?"

I pointed out to one bloke that being a firefighter is a pretty dangerous occupation. "Oh, they don't risk their lives very often", said a chartered accountant! who once stabbed himself with a pencil.

[Jet]

I can't be bothered arguing with 'concerned taxpayers' about us sleeping on nights. I just point out that there's not much we can do on a night shift that wouldn't disturb most people (sleeping!) and anything we did do would just be punitive just to keep us awake all night. We have a fairly unique job and the fact that the vast majority of fire services worldwide have beds is proof of that. Plenty of other jobs exist where employees are also able (and is practical) to sleep at work i.e. on-call doctors and long-haul pilots. 

[Chinagraph1]

I seem to recall the reason we were given beds at stations was so as to not  pay us unsociable rate. That is why we are paid the same rate per hour regardless of nightshift or weekends. If they took the beds away we could claim extra for unsocial working hour conditions . So I'm surprised to see some comments here saying they have no beds already. 

[Carl]

22 minutes ago, Chinagraph1 said:

If they took the beds away we could claim extra for unsocial working hour conditions .

Having lost them over 15 years ago, we tried every trick in the book at the time. We have argued this one to death.

[Chinagraph1]

Thanks Carl. 

Wasnt aware of this but not surprised to hear this .

[Jet]

Yep, we just simply don't get paid for unsociable hours. They've argued that it's inclusive in our basic pay but doesn't explain how people working mon-fri, 9-5 still get paid the same nonetheless. There really is no straight answer and it's added to the ever-growing and perpetually ignored 'too difficult' pile that has become the long running not-so-funny joke that is the modern fire service.  

[Chanchan168]

Hi all,

I know this topic is a couple of years old now, but I’d like to know please if any stations have lost the beds since the last post and are either starting to get them returned or replaced with other resting facilities. 

we are undertaking a service review both in job evaluation and terms and conditions of service and trolling through the thread it’s interesting to see that some  (please correct me if I’m wrong) seem to be understanding of the public perception that in a modern day frs, we cannot justify defined sleeping periods any longer. This being said the counter claim to this - is to offset the removal of beds with a supplement to cover unsociable hours.

We are  building a new joint statin with local ambo and there is no provision for beds, which I get, but as part of our review, the defined rest period will go, but be replaced with a potential 20-25% supplement for unsociable hours between 1900 and 0700 and 30% on weekends.

I’ve been in the job 21 years and current WC on ops and I also am part of the union, and for me personally I believe it’s a fair trade off for a modern FRS, but wonder what other peoples position are regarding the removal of beds and what in place you have for rest periods. 

thanks in advance 

[Navigator]

Chanchan,

Why can't a 'modern' frs have a defined period of time where the only duty on a crew is to be out the doors within 60 seconds of a job coming in.

What do you propose crews do on waking night shifts?

Are you prepared for the potential backlash of making a 10 hour day shift 12 hours?

What's next after the beds, the gym? The kitchen? Washing your car with the services water? 

[Carl]

Been there and done it.

GMFRS got rid of beds in 2006. In 2022, all beds were put back by the CFO and every station now has them.

[Chanchan168]

18 minutes ago, Carl said:

Been there and done it.

GMFRS got rid of beds in 2006. In 2022, all beds were put back by the CFO and every station now has them.

Thanks Carl. Just the info I’m after. 

1 hour ago, Navigator said:

Chanchan,

Why can't a 'modern' frs have a defined period of time where the only duty on a crew is to be out the doors within 60 seconds of a job coming in.

What do you propose crews do on waking night shifts?

Are you prepared for the potential backlash of making a 10 hour day shift 12 hours?

What's next after the beds, the gym? The kitchen? Washing your car with the services water? 

I’m not saying we can’t, I’m saying public perception along with political will can’t seem to justify a defined sleep in period that is classed as “working hours” in our work routines. The proposal is to potentially move it from our work routines and in exchange offer unsociable hours bounty’s.

the new station isn’t going to have beds, so it’s down to management to stand down the crews when the works done, so in order words, nothing will change apart from a recognized period written in. 

I don’t necessarily believe that this isn’t a fair compromise with a new staton without any formal physical sleep in arrangements. 

18 minutes ago, Carl said:

Been there and done it.

GMFRS got rid of beds in 2006. In 2022, all beds were put back by the CFO and every station now has them.

Do you know the rationale Carl behind the reversal?

[OscarTango]

So realistically, you would still bunk down on a sofa or camping mat between shouts, but get 25 percent extra for the privilege?

[Chanchan168]

Pretty much yeh

Wouldn’t say it’s a privilege as such. Proving a mechanism for rest Is a way to justify us falling below the recommended WTR of having 11 hours rest in between shifts and to prevent a change to 12/12 shifts. 

Edited January 27, 2023 by Carl
Quotes removed as they weren't needed. Please see FAQ

[Lumie]

When you say ‘working hours’ what do you mean? 
 

We can’t do community safety at 4am. We do enough inspections and 7.2ds during day shifts. There’s no benefit to station drills during the night, and it’s unfair on local residents to do drills outside at 3am too with the lights, sounds of pumps and people talking etc.

Other than sitting in front of the TV, what else do you propose we’d do between 00:00-07:00 that the public would like us to do?

[03RPW-6715]

Shropshire have beds/ individual rooms, and a new Wholetime station is currently being built with these in. We do 14 hour nights.

My previous brigade had no beds and a "rest" period between 00:00-06:00 but sleeping wasn't allowed. These were 12 hour shifts.

[BurtMacklin]

London has had all new stations built with single occupancy rooms but more interestingly invested significant amounts retrofitting old stations with single occupancy rooms. I think this shows that there is no appetite from LFB or city hall to get rid of the stand down sleep arrangement.

[Luminoki]

I always wonder why geting rid of beds/sleeping is what we need to acheive to portray “a modern fire service” Surely theres different ways to show the public what an outstanding service we can be:

• Less wastage of public funds
• Clear and transparent promotion processes
• Investment in training and equipment
• Cultural reviews that actually do something about the alleged rot
• Actually paying the employees a salary commersurate with the role/inflation ( controversial for some i know )
• Funding for recruitment to build a sustainable workforce for the future and not having to rely on PAO
• Shared learning with not just other blue light services but other public sectors
• Fighting to keep appliances/stations rather than losing them
• Great funding for fire safety ( it shouldnt have taken Grenfell for this )
• Exploring additional activities that are akin to our role ( controversial once again )

Now that looks like a modern fire service. But yes all require money, so lets throw summat in the bin as it wont cost us anything and we can put a positive spin on it to appease the Daily Mail readers. As Navigator said, whats next? The gyms? “Bloody firefighters, just sit around or go to the gym” If there was no gym, do they think the LFB firefighters wouldve been able to haul aloft a 135 ladder at Grenfell.

Im all for a modern service and all for protecting our terms and conditions, i just feel sad that a service would settle for a pat on the back from the armchair readers for getting rid of beds rather than a round of applause for keeping the service in the style the locals have become accustomed to