Shift Systems

[Carl]

As many of you will have already seen, we in Greater Manchester Fire and Rescue successfully fought off 12hr shifts in the past few months. We were threatened with new contracts which was quickly rescinded and after a bit of a battle got put back on the shelf. One of the main issues was around the start and finish times which were initially 10:30 - 10:30 which went down like a lead balloon.

Anyway, I am interested if those in the job could details their current shift systems and the positives and negatives of them. Please dont forget to include the FRS you work in

PS: You can now add you details of the FRS in which you work in your profile details. 

[TandA]

Essex WT work 9 hr days, 15 hour nights, changeovers at 9am and 6pm.  Tried and tested, liked by every WT ff I speak with.   Continuation of these shifts very recently confirmed but with a few changes to work routines where the day shift will concentrate on prevention and protection with almost all training etc done on nights.

Day crewed shift system to be eliminated by 2020, all day crew stations to be changed to RDS status. 

[Becile]

Surrey WT 9-6 , 6-9 (2,2,4) standard 4 watches - however allowed to put two shifts together to ride a 24 if still within working time directive time off rules. This means that when shifts are available (frequently are due to manning levels ) you can usually do a 24 either coming onto to your tour or going off. ( extra hours payed at time and a half ) also loads of guys now swap the shifts to make this work if they come from afar.

also have 2 stations that only ride 07.00 -19.00 Monday to Friday (only 4 shifts ridden per tour ) they get an extra 10% - non pensionable (although believe this is being legally challenged)

Just about to trial 2 IRVs on the run (crew of 2) 9-6 but convinced it will end up 07-19

Perspective, we are 70% WT

[Keith]

WT 2,2,4 changed to 08.00 to 18.00 and 18.00 to 08.00 at the start of the year to tie in with another change in Day Crewing which is 08.00 to 18.00 Monday to Friday. We also have one station doing 07.30 to 19.30 7 days a week with two Watches. RDS outside those hours for both systems.

[LiamG]

London is 2-2-4 09:30-20:00 but you try commuting to work in London for a 09:30 start...

[Steve]

London Flexi is a 4 week system with 9's (8am to 5pm) and 24's (8am to 8am), some station based SM's have some 9+ instead of 9 (11am to 8pm);

Week 1; M24, T24, W9, Th9

Week 2; T9, W9, Th9, Fr9, Sa24, Su24

Week 3; T9, W9, Th24, Fr24

Week 4; M9, T9, W24, Th9

It changed a few years ago from week 1 having a Fr9 and week 2 starting on the Wednesday, I prefer it this new way as I only work two Monday and Fridays per month. (apart from recall which is another thing altogether).

[SteelCity]

Shropshire is 2/2/4 08:30 - 18:30 though this could change to 08:00 - 18:00 (was 09:00 - 18:00 until Feb this year). Also rostered off occasionally and pay these back as bank shifts during peak holiday seasons (to avoid overtime). We also standby for pre agreed resilience shifts to get called in if needed at short notice to cover sick. 

[Landy01]

Queensland WT are 2/2/4. 0800-1800 for days, 1800-0800 nights.

[Carefree]

I still pine for the old 09:00 - 18:00 shifts.

[Carl]

Me too, I would love to go back to that one.

I forgot to mention in the initial post that in Greater Manchester we are currently on 08:30 - 19:00 and of course 19:00 - 08:30 on the 2,2,4 system. However, firefighters and crew managers still do the rostered reserve shifts were they can be left at home and brought in off pattern. Thankfully I have escaped that.

[Keith]

So since the change away from the traditional 09.00 to 18.00, apart from upsetting the staff, what have all the brigades achieved with the change in hours?

[Jet]

Lots of people got promotions/bonuses.

[Keith]

Surely not Jamie, that would never happen....

[Jet]

Can't speak for everyone but our shifts are the result of Brian 'Toad' Coleman declaring war on beds (or at least that's my view). He knew the key to abolishing them would be 12hr shifts but after the union backed it there was no going back on a shift change, no matter what it ended up being. So instead of 9/15s which we wanted or 12/12s which they wanted we now have a system that no one wants. Progress eh?

[Steve]

Yes completely true.....Their were no winners and even when that thing was dismissed the useless shifts have remained. I often ask about the 9 and 6 change, but lots of people at the inner Stations would now dread the horris of the commute at those hours. I think a 24 shift with a changeover somewhere between 11am to 2pm would be best. Although all of a sudden this isn't my job for much longer, my kids are either adults or as near as damn it so my opinion isn't that valid.

[Ian]

2-2-4 and 09:00-18:00 we have lost three W/t stations to day crewing plus in the last couple of years

[Percy]

On 01/04/2017 at 20:59, Carl said:

As many of you will have already seen, we in Greater Manchester Fire and Rescue successfully fought off 12hr shifts in the past few months. We were threatened with new contracts which was quickly rescinded and after a bit of a battle got put back on the shelf. One of the main issues was around the start and finish times which were initially 10:30 - 10:30 which went down like a lead balloon.

If the Start/Finish time was a more suitable, workable and realistic 7/19 instead of the nonsense proposed which was totally focused on Service need and the Mythical Unicorn that is the 'Demand Curve', do you think there would have been more appetite?

[Cardiff_Fire]

2/2/4 with 0900 & 1800 here. No more day crewing etc.  We do have element of flexible rostering.  You can be asked to work a shift (to put you in "credit") then request a roster off in return.

[Percy]

On 06/04/2017 at 21:50, Carl said:

However, firefighters and crew managers still do the rostered reserve shifts were they can be left at home and brought in off pattern. Thankfully I have escaped that.

Do you know Carl that this is legally unenforceable?! We did something similar ourselves from Jan 2015 but while you can roster people off from a fixed pattern as much as you want - getting them back in is the unenforceable part. It was the NJC employers (note not employees) legal secretary who advised us of this last year hence a massive and quick re-do.

[03RPW-6715]

Cheshire WT have 3 duty systems, Wholetime system is 2-2-4, 8-8. Nucleus system is 7-7, 3 days on, 3 days off, no nights.  Day crewing 1 system which I work is 7pm-9am on-call from a fire service house (5 minute turnout), then 9am-7pm on station, (24 hours altogether). This is self rostered between 9 firefighters.

[Firefant]

This probably isn’t relevant now. I’m just going through all the forums to catch up. 

We do 24 on 72 off shifts and they are brilliant. 09:00 to 09:00 and then 3 days off. A bit of a nightmare for us to plan training etc and if we get a few shouts training does suffer. But everyone (me included) loves the shifts. 

[HoldFast]

As with most rumours I suspect it is just that, but is there any reason to believe GMFRS may be going onto 24 hour shifts?

[Carl]

Yep, its just that. As much as many would like the 24s, including myself when I was on station, I don't think we will see them. Never say never though.

[Jet]

The newer build stations aren't fit for purpose as they are, let alone for accommodating personnel on a 24 hour shift. Never going to happen.

[Br9mp81]

Best shift ever, lets face it some people spend 24 hours traveling to do the job,  less stress less travel cost less greenhouse gases