Noddy Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 For those experienced in firefighting in timber framed buildings what are your considerations and actions when the fire has penetrated the cavity? The aftermath and resultant damage of such fires increasingly appears disproportionate but are these types of buildings unique in the way that the fire spreads? I know from my experience it boils down to physically finding the fire by punching holes in walls, ceilings and floors, something not done in other types of construction. Link to comment
Alan Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 Having been I.C. at a large scale timber frame fire in apartments recently I found the only option was to "pick your point" I.e. where will we stop the fire. It resulted in sacrificing a duplex unit either side of the fire and aggressively attacking the fire by pulling ceilings and walls and using PPV offensively to ventilate the structure. 2 crews armed with 45 hose lines done the rest. As we all know fire in timber framed buildings spreads rapidly so stopping it at the point of source isn't really an option in my opinion. The initial PDA and weight of attack combined with fast and aggressive attack is what will determine the outcome. On average I've noticed we have about 20 mins from start of the fire to the point where collapse is imminent. https://www.rte.ie/news/dublin/2017/0511/874235-blanchardstown-fire/ Link to comment
Dyson Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 Was that the one caused by the use of a BBQ on a balcony? Link to comment
Keith Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 Its something I would dread to get even in a single domestic dwelling never mind the apartment block in Alan's post. For all intensive purposes if you arrived at the majority of them, unless you are told or have specific ops intelligence that they are timber framed, they look like any traditional built property. Link to comment
Alan Posted August 6, 2017 Share Posted August 6, 2017 On 8/3/2017 at 09:51, Dyson said: Was that the one caused by the use of a BBQ on a balcony? That's the one Link to comment
Hmckay91 Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 On 02/08/2017 at 16:27, Noddy said: For those experienced in firefighting in timber framed buildings what are your considerations and actions when the fire has penetrated the cavity? The aftermath and resultant damage of such fires increasingly appears disproportionate but are these types of buildings unique in the way that the fire spreads? I know from my experience it boils down to physically finding the fire by punching holes in walls, ceilings and floors, something not done in other types of construction. Fire extension is always something to be concerned about in timber frame construction especially if the fire leaves the room of origin. The Thermal Imaging Camera (and before that a simple temperature sensor) has been a game changer in this instance as the first tool of choice before physically opening up walls, ceilings, voids, other areas during the overhaul stage. Regular surveys of the fire area using the TIC backed up by knowledge of building construction, likely extension pathways, and experience make finding hidden fire much easier than in the past. If we have to expose and examine we normally strip back to unburned material. Link to comment
Noddy Posted August 10, 2017 Author Share Posted August 10, 2017 Interesting about the TIC mate. I don't disagree it is useful but not to be relied upon in my mind? Just because the TIC shows a cold wall doesn't mean the that there is no fire behind it, just that the wall hasn't conducted enough heat yet for the TIC to see it. Link to comment
Hmckay91 Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 21 hours ago, Noddy said: Interesting about the TIC mate. I don't disagree it is useful but not to be relied upon in my mind? Just because the TIC shows a cold wall doesn't mean the that there is no fire behind it, just that the wall hasn't conducted enough heat yet for the TIC to see it. Noddy, true enough and there are no absolutes. You have to use all the available indicators (visual, audible, olfactory) which is the "experience" I mentioned. Don't get me wrong, we open up walls ceilings, and voids to examine/extinguish especially if we know it will come down during the clean up anyway; but for when your trying to determine if any fire penetrated a cavity (without any obvious evidence of a breach) the TIC is our first tool of choice... (Different TIC performance parameters may cloud expectations here.) Post fire if we have a cavity temperature of 130-100 degrees F that is stable/falling over time then it is very likely not to be an active/hidden fire issue. Anecdotally, speaking it is a risk/reward assessment and truthfully to this point we have not missed a hidden fire and have preserved much more "savable" structure/sheeting than otherwise. Excuse my ignorance but what temperature would be considered a "cold wall" or the proper amount of time allowance to conduct heat? Link to comment
Noddy Posted August 11, 2017 Author Share Posted August 11, 2017 Good question mate that has too many variables to answer. I'd be more concerned about a 'hotter' wall than others in the same compartment when compared. Link to comment
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