Your Ideal PPE

[Jet]

Out of all the types and eras of PPE you have used, which do you prefer and what combination would you have right now if you had the say? So for example you could wear your most recent tunic and leggings with a cork helmet if you wish!

[Cashybai]

Pacific lid, old Bristol long tunic, current leggings, and a pair of Lancashire gloves I had whilst doing RFT @FSC

[Carl]

I must admit @Jamiejet, I pretty much like what I have now with the current PPE. The layered approach works for me but as my days of regular BA are behind me I look at to from a different perspective. 

[Br9mp81]

not going to comment, as on my basic we had the black separate leggings !

[Messyshaw]

Ideal PPE? Retirement every time ?. Complete safety !

The old Melton (is that the right name) tunics look the best by a country mile. The traditional look of the rough black material with double row of silver buttons is very photogenic.

But it was crap. It weight 236 tonnes when wet. The belt hooks could catch on debris imprisoning you to your fate in the job, the open sleeves collected debris, especially when using a ceiling hook! And the open neck did the same.

Don' t even get me talking about the plastic shrink wrap leggings and dustmans pvc gloves.

Anything is and was better than that!

[Jet]

@Carl I’m afraid to say that I really do not like the current layered PPE. It’s not so much flawed in the quality or look but just in design. I can’t state how much of a chore it is to have to put on two tunics when rigging in BA en route to an AFA or any fire call for that matter. It literally is a time waster. For me it would work so much better if we had two completely separate tunics that were able to be worn independently of each other. I had no problem with LFBs PPE nor the old GMC PPE that I wore on my transferee course. 

[Carl]

I do hear this often @Jamiejet, hence my mention of the not wearing of BA. I have only ever wore my outer tunic on my BA Refreshers etc, so I don't have the same issues as yourself. In saying that, the guys on my watch were really impressed on the Jackson St incident with it, when entering what they describe as something which was borderline for entering. The protection they got was excellent and in comparison to previous kit, was far superior. 

In terms of the other kit, I saw Steve Morris engulfed in flames 10 years ago and with 50% burns, not so sure the older stuff offers the same protection. Granted its always going to be easier to put on. I guess in an ideal world the 2 tunic option would be the preferred one.

[Jet]

I don’t doubt the quality of the current PPE, it’s almost too good in some sense. It’s just the wearing of one tunic over the other. It personally just doesn’t work for me and feels very uncomfortable; in a time when you already feel pretty uncomfortable to begin with. I can’t help but think it’s one of those initiatives that GMC just couldn’t help but jump at the chance of because they are the ‘future of firefighting’.

[Carefree]

On 30/12/2017 at 01:29, Carl said:

  In saying that, the guys on my watch were really impressed on the Jackson St incident with it, when entering what they describe as something which was borderline for entering. The protection they got was excellent and in comparison to previous kit, was far superior. 

And for me that is all that matters, full protection despite it maybe being a little uncomfortable.  I’d rather some discomfort and inconvenience than Fire gear that isn’t up to scratch.

[Cashybai]

Hmm. I want to be careful here Carl, especially considering Steve's injuries. As a BAI, I've got to say that there is a danger that kit can be TOO protective, which can itself lead to other issues. Let me clarify: I was a safety officer at FSC the week before London swopped from the original Bristol Long tunic kit (Pacific Lid, flash hoods, Firecraft blue gloves) on a 4 day qualified RFT course. 3 minor injuries, all embers down the back of the neck/gloves minor burn stuff. Following week was same course, all in the new Lion blaze kit with cromwells, 6 cases of heat stress, 2 being BAI's, 1 resulting in hospital. Although the Lion stuff offered awesome protection against heat transfer to the skin, it's tightness prevented skin cooling by convection currents, plus the inability of the wearer to feel heat meant that wearers didn't know they were getting hot despite their core temperatures rising, hence heat stress became a real issue. Over it's years of issue, despite training to keep low, it must be said the kit encouraged firefighters into some bad habits of being stood up in high temperatures where in the older kit you'd be crawling on the carpet. This led to a local FBU enquiry when the current Bristol kit came in, where wearers complained that the heat protection wasn't upto scratch. TBH remembering the old kit, the new stuff brought back being able to read the fire temperatures and conditions again.

Don't get me wrong, I want firefighters to have the best kit out there, but we seem to be swinging backwards and forwards between under & over protected.

[Carl]

Totally understand where you are coming from on this. I once wore with a firefighter 20 years my senior and we entered quite a hot bedroom. He wasn't happy with the conditions and I was, even though it was bouncing. He bowed to experience and myself as a newbie relied on the kit. The moral of the story is, he knew when conditions were not right and I was prepared to go the extra bit because of my kit which could make you comfortable(ish) in a bad situation.

[Cashybai]

Iirc it all stemmed from Blaina/Leo's and the whole mass of CFT/Fire Behaviour/Flashover/Backdraft/Tiger (in the flames for those who remember the video) rightly so led to a complete change in firefighting ethos: However it also led to a generation of firefighters being of the impression that pulse spraying was the answer to everything, and the introduction of kit which although it was a quantum leap forward in pre/post flashover protection, also led to that degradation of compartment condition sensing. Thankfully we seemed to have reached a happyish medium again, I'll comment more when our new kit comes on the run....