Northern Ireland 11th Night

[Messyshaw]

Good luck to NI fire crews tonight. Its gunna be a busy 11th night

There's quite a bit of tension around the building of these 40ft tall bonfires just metres from properties. Even an injunction has stopped some making them bigger.

Some have several hundered, perhaps, thousands of pallets annd perhaps 300 tyres. I wouldnt want one of them anywhere near my house

Plus the weather is mild and dry which may encourage more people out

Stay safe

[Keith]

I will be Messy, I'm off.

Majority of these pass off without incident and without any involvement of the Fire Service. For the higher risk ones there will be contingency plans in place to keep everyone safe.

[Messyshaw]

Its an amazing sight to see these huge bonfires and extraordinary that the fire service and authorities seem powerless to ensure they are located in sensible locations. Check out the Carrickfergus bonfire next to a petrol station on the BBC news website;

Belfast homes boarded up ahead of Eleventh Night bonfire

[Hmckay91]

(forgive the perhaps simplified cultural view from across the pond)

Does the local authority and/or fire service have no input/control/say in where (and how big) these bonfires are allowed?

Our municipality does not allow open burning within the corporate limits; unless its a recreational fire (in an approved fire pit that meets conditions) OR by permit (again has to meet conditions).  The ones highlighted above would never be countenanced in a built up area; and if they ever were would need proof of insurance (property and liability) and standby hired fire protection.

[Keith]

All we can do is offer advice and then turn out to protect lives and property. Legislatively it is complicated, primary responsibility lies with the landowner and then environmental health for nuisance burning etc. 

Majority of bonfires do sign up to local authority schemes which limit the size, location and what can be burned, however the problem ones don't. The other problem is actually finding out who is in charge of them.

[Messyshaw]

Some images of what constitutes a 'bonfire' in NI

 

[Hmckay91]

4 hours ago, Keith said:

All we can do is offer advice and then turn out to protect lives and property. Legislatively it is complicated, primary responsibility lies with the landowner and then environmental health for nuisance burning etc. 

Majority of bonfires do sign up to local authority schemes which limit the size, location and what can be burned, however the problem ones don't. The other problem is actually finding out who is in charge of them.

Thanks, that is interesting.  So legislatively, I can burn anything I want on my property; regardless of public hazards, environmental hazards, health hazards to neighbours, fire risks to my own and neighbours property, is that right?  The car park bonfire seems to indicate the area was simply appropriated for the event and people were run off.

As I mentioned with the many massive forest fires (California, and more locally Slave Lake, Fort McMurray, and the current challenges in BC) the NA population and authorities would be significantly less accepting of that kind of reckless behaviour.

[Alan]

Not to mention the bizarre fact of Belfast city council agreeing to store pallets for bonfires on council property ! 

[Messyshaw]

HmcKay: 

The situation re the 11th night bonfires is unique to Northern Ireland and it's heritage 

There is perhaps nowhere else in the UK that such activity would be permitted so close to occupied buildings, but there again, there is nowhere else in the UK with a background like NI. In some ways the authorities put up with it - as Alan says, even trying to help as far as possible - rather than confront the risks and open up old wounds 

The NIFRS have procedures that would not even be considered elsewhere and certainly not in London. But it works.... so far

History of 11th night bonfires bonfire history

BBC video showing past bonfires that haven't gone too well eleventh night bonfires, culture and controversy

[Keith]

HmcKay, as Messy has summed it up a lot of this is down to our unique circumstances. Now whilst the bonfires get away with it you would be getting a visit from Environment Agency if you were having regular fires on your property.

[Hmckay91]

Thanks Messy and Keith.  On a very basic (and disconnected) level I understand the deep seated traditional aspects of the event.  By all appearances things seem to be managed successfully.  

What I don't understand is the allowance of these mostly unregulated fires in built up areas and of such a magnitude nor how a 50' tower of pallets next to a row of town homes or an apartment building embodies and improves the "cultural" experience of the event vice a 10' one in a vacant lot.  At some point Public (and Private) Safety, municipal responsibility, and community have to reign.