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When I was at LFB we used to ride 4 minimum, sometimes 5 or even 6. 

It has become apparent that Manchester only rides 4, no more. 

Will this always be the case due to cuts? Or when the current recruitment ends will they eventually ride 5? 

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Our CFO has promised that he will have us riding 5s if we undertake additional hours, e.g. overtime. However, as we have refused to do it as its flat rate, we only ride 4s. With several courses planned for this year, the next being in September, I am hoping that we increase the numbers which would allow 5s. The guys in the back of the pumps do find it a squeeze though ;)

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I think you must be one of the lucky ones Noddy. I thought most had gone down to 4s. Try and keep them as long as you can is all I will say. Some jobs are hard enough, but with 4s, it can be quite challenging and result in making up.

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We've been at 4 for quite a few years now. The crewing numbers very rarely allowed for 5 . If you had more than 4 on you had to roster people off. Although this has changed due to guys accruing days that couldn't be paid back so occasionally we ride 5 on the odd pump, but more often than not OT is being used just to keep the pumps on the run..and it's getting worse with our leavers profile.

Operationally guys make up much more often for manpower at incidents, which as an oncoming l2 officer I have absolutely no problem with and regularly have conversations on the debrief that we could have made up quicker.

There are some jobs where 4 is ok and some where it isn't.. but that's a whole topic and the task analysis workstream is taking us away from number of pumps needed to get a job done rathervthan ffs irrespective of how they got there.

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i consider that i work for a quality FRS, genuinely I'm proud of that.

However I'm embarrassed to say at present we are riding 4 all the time, I've been 1st in attendance at more building fires that i care to remember with 4 recently. 

its stressful, its horrible, its wrong :( 

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We ride 5s on all single pump stations and 5 & 4 at our one WT only 2 pump station.  My service seem to be pretty good at keeping this the norm with watch strengths of 7 (for one pump no specials) also using detachments and rostering on/off to keep us on 5.  

4 does happen occasionally, where late notice sickness hits or over a weekend where staffing don't work. However 4s definitely isn't the norm here.

Edited by Cardiff_Fire
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WT ride fours as standard on stations with a single pump and a special. Not so sure with 2 pump stations but believe it's five and four. With the on-call we hover around 4 during the day, five being the norm at night.

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  • 10 months later...

To those that have SR/ DCP do you find that you ride 4 often? Does the system allow for many occasions where you ride 5?

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We ride 4 on all Wholetime pumps and yeah, we use rapid deployment. Since becoming Wholetime, riding 4 is all I know, not sure if we will ever go back to 5 riders.

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We are roughly 20% down on wholetime crews so almost always at 4 (initial deployment also acceptable)

On call crews can attend with 3 riders?

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Happens in Staffs and i think Warks as well ( riding 3 ). H&W are riding 4 on pumps now. Instead of rostering off a fifth, they are sometimes sent to crew an RDS station that are down

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  • 3 weeks later...

Shire brigades all seem to be on 4 now. It seems unlikely they will ever go back to 5 as standard.

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On 05/05/2018 at 06:44, Ian said:

On call crews can attend with 3 riders?

Been there, done that many many years ago.  Never want to do it again!  Dangerous, so dangerous.  It is going to come back to bite someone some day soon.  

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  • 2 weeks later...

In Cornwall we're minimum 5, mainly because you're never sure where the next pump is coming from. We've trialled banked shifts, but the flexibility of paying the days back didn't really materialise.

This month we will be looking at having 6 available WT and sending the 'spare' to an On-Call station that are short.

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LFB’s minimum ridership is 5 minimum on a single pump station, but 4 (each; 8 total) on 2+ pump stations.

If there are 2 appliances, but the second is either a TL/HP/ALP or a Fire Rescue Unit, then the pump will still ride 5.

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  • 6 months later...

I’ve been watching the new documentary series on sky witness about Dublin Fire Brigade. It was interesting to note that they still ride 5 as standard on every rescue pump. 

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GMFRS policy is to crew 5 on all first pumps and 4 on second. In reality a 5+4 almost never happens, but single pumps will usually be on 5 so long as OT continues to be the gift that keeps on giving...

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17 hours ago, TrainHardFightEasy said:

Do any services still ride 5 except LFB & West Mids?

Scotland rides 5

minimum 5 on all first pumps 

minimum 4 on all seconds 

If that figure drops below 5 the second pump will get dropped to put that number back up and guys will be detached to make up the shortfall at other stations 

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